Match On?!

According to fide.com,

The FIDE President has made several proposals for further continuation of the match, which unfortunately were not accepted. After the detailed study of the current situation and the consultation with the FIDE Legal Advisor, the FIDE President decided: Tomorrow, 2 October 2006, at 15.00, the 6th Game of the World Chess Championship Match Topalov-Kramnik will take place.

Does "were not accepted" mean that 3-2 scorecount was not confirmed with Kramnik?!

I'd think match is not on? Kramnik will walk (he is not agreeing with the decision according to FIDE's homepage), Kirsan is corrupted and wants to reward Danailov/Topalov (whom he wants to win for his round robin plans) for creating this mess.

http://fide.com/news.asp?id=1136

"Press Release 7 - World Chess Championship Match
Tomorrow - 6th Game of the Match

After the numerous rounds of the negotiations with the teams of Veselin Topalov and Vladimir Kramnik, FIDE President Kirsan Ilyumzhinov managed to reach the considerable progress.

As it was informed before, the question on the bathrooms was solved positively by mutual agreement of both teams.

After the voluntary resignation of the members of the 2006 World Chess Championship Appeals Committee, the new members of the Committee, who have already arrived to Elista, were assigned.

The FIDE President has made several proposals for further continuation of the match, which unfortunately were not accepted. After the detailed study of the current situation and the consultation with the FIDE Legal Advisor, the FIDE President decided:

Tomorrow, 2 October 2006, at 15.00, the 6th Game of the World Chess Championship Match Topalov-Kramnik will take place."

Ridiculous. They are punishing the wrong side here, hasn't this occurred to them by now? If anything, the score should be 4-1 (yes, 4-1, not 3-1). This is a nice precedent to quote by all future cheaters...

There is something about it that just feels very wrong. Kramnik loses a game with white. Also, while he was arguiing with Danailov, Topalov calmly prepared for the match. For our sanity, I hope Kramnik wins this. If Topalov wins one more game and then wins the blitz tie-break, will he really be the World champion?

Are you sure Kramnik has agreed to this?

To me it sounds more like he has been given an ultimatum.

Just when you think it can't get any worse . . .

http://wcn.tentonhammer.com

I would rather the match be cancelled than continue at 3:2.

Shame on Topalov for not compromising on this issue. I have lost all respect for him. He is no longer a worthy champion.

If the match continues, Kramnik has my full support and I hope he thrashes the Bulgarian cheat!

"The FIDE President has made several proposals for further continuation of the match, which unfortunately were not accepted." Of course Kramnik did not agree to this.

Wrongdoer rewarded for his disgraceful behaviour. What a precedent to set by FIDE. Hopefully Kramnik will abandon the match (if this news are true).

I guess FIDE would get sued by Topalov if it didn't forfeit Kramnik.
Technically, Kramnik did agree to the constitution of the Appeals committee and is bound by the regulations of the appeals committee till it was in place.

"and the consultation with the FIDE Legal Advisor..."

http://fide.com/news.asp?id=1136

Apparently Kramnik didn't agree to this.

This is very bad for chess. So, tomorrow Kirsan resumes the match at 3-2, starts the clocks, gives another win for Topalov by forfeit, and then declares Topalov retains his title. Is it really the farce we're about to witness?

The only thing that Kramnik wants is: Upheld the contract!!

That is inadmissble for both danailov and the fide!

The former for the money he will lose then. Topalov is only his golden chick in all that. He only managed thing for his own profit.

The second because of the highly probable win of kramnik, and the vain existence of fide, deprived of its big title: "world champion".

Hope it 's a fake!

Shame on you, Topalov!

Hmm. Nothing about this press release suggests that Kramnik will be playing tomorrow, even if the match continues. As mentioned before, shame on Topalov for trying to keep a point he should never have earned. If there were any doubts about the extent of his involvement in this shabby, sordid affair, they can be laid to rest now.

It wouldn't make sense for Kramnik to agree to this, especially after refusing the proposal to play 14 games with 3-1 score.

Read this more carefully. "...the FIDE President decided...".
This is about as effective as my decision that it should snow here tomorrow.
Kramnik will not be playing. The match is over.

For those who blame only Topa I want to mention that the truth is out there - everyone should get introduced with the video recordings in the Kramnik's rest room in order to have a propper view of the entire situation. As soon as the tapes are revealed the chess world will be satisfied. There is always another point of view and the tapes may or may not confirm it.

If Topalov had just played 32 Rxg4+ in game 2 we wouldn't be in this mess!?

Agreed, the match is over. Kramnik did not agree and will not appear for the game tomorrow.

For anyone seeking an insight into the mindset of Topalov and his "characterful" bunch of chums, I would direct your attention to the link below...

http://www.borat.tv/

Hurray!

Kramnik the sole World Champion!

Time to create a new Federation for players all around the world: a one without bastard like KI, azmai, danailov and so!!

The King is dead, Hurray For Kramnik!!

I reiterate when I say that I started this match in favor of Topolov, but I've never wanted someone to win a World Championship so much as now. That someone is KRAMNIK!

Agree with the one who said that it's absurd to think that Kramnik would suddenly agree to *this* when he disagreed to make much smaller concessions.

It says quite about Kirsan's proposals "which unfortunately were not accepted."...

"quite clearly"

I felt it a strategic mistake to default game five at the time, and the more I thought about it the more convinced I've been. Kramnik's won his protest on every substantive point but not turning up to a game has always been a bad idea in whatever sport you play. You hardly ever get the point back. The recent cricket match between England and Pakistan was a case in point. They won on the ball tampering issue (accusation of cheating if you will) but still defaulted a match they were trying to win. It doesn't matter whether you're right.

I doubt Kramnik will continue the match but a "really" smart move would be to play on. Something like that would never be forgotten whatever the result and even if you want to get mercinary about this I think it might be financially good in the long term too.

I wonder if they will "play" games 7, 8, 9 and 10 too -- then Topalov would certainly prove his superiority by winning with an overwhelming 7-3.

Amazingly, Kirsan and Topalov have managed to do what Kramnik never accomplished: To create sympathy for Kramnik.

Have to disagree with Mark Crowther on this (even though I visit his excellent site every week).

It would be dangerous to set this precedent. To reward the wrongdoer and punish the victim.

Playing on would give some credibility back to FIDE.

They don't deserve it, and Topalov doesn't deserve the point.

The best outcome could be a sort of culmination point, in which (the current) FIDE would become the public enemy of the chess world and somewhere, some time in the future we could have a new beginning with professional, skilled people. Not the current corrupted lot.

Hopefully Kramnik stands for the principle.

Yep, once again I am in full agreement with AZ79. I think and hope that Kramnik is consistent and doesn't give in here.

And all that was originated by the M@therF***** Danailov and his fide pals ;oX

Peace...

This resolution is just asinine. It now places Kramnik in position to either concede or forfeit the match, whereas it clearly should be Topalov who must make such a choice. This is definitely a terrible precedent, to reward the corruption with an unearned point and steal from Kramnik one of his games as white. Shame has fallen upon the chess world once more.

Hotep,

Maliq

Mark, I doubt the Kramnik would ever have got his point back had game 5 really taken place. Can you imagine Topalov -- supposing he won that game -- giving back a point after having spent energy and effort, not to mention exposed preparation "secrets" of whatever kind? To continue with game 5 would in effect have ratified the clearly absurd decision of the Appeals Committee. Kramnik really had no choice.

I think the situation with the England-Pakistan match was different. For one thing, they were making a "protest"; the material circumstances -- of being docked 15 runs -- was really neither here nor there. It was extremely unlikely to have affected the outcome of the match. Kramnik, by contrast, was fighting for something much more substantial: not just trying to uphold the terms he agreed upon, but safeguard something (his use of a private rest area) that was clearly of huge importance in the development of the match. Besides which, despite the farcical aspects of the cricket debacle, one can assume that each side would get a fair hearing. With the Appeals Committee -- the ultimate arbiter in the matter, unlike umpire Darrell Hair -- already having made a ridiculous decision, what other recourse did he have?

Topolov may win the match, but he can never take the crown.

according to chesspro Kirsan proposed they continue with game 5, but play 16 games and Kramnik turned it down. he also refused to play 14 game match

Why increase the numbers of game? was it really that hard to upheld the contract???

For kramnik not

For fide and the rest yes???

Welcome to the twilight zone!!

If Kramnik continues to play, Topalov's play may be compromised by a feeling of illegitimacy. Even though Spassky had nothing to do with Fischer's default of Game 2 of their match, his play appeared to suffer. But Spassky was a gentleman, and Topalov apparently believes "All's fair in love and chess."

Peace...

It is foolish to argue that Kramnik should have played Game 5. Doing such would have constituted a submission to the corrupt terms, and he never would have gotten the relief that has been granted. My hope is that Vlady actually does play and hereafter buries Topalov. At any rate, Topalov cannot hope to win this match in a manner that will leave him considered World Champion. Even fellow GMs have turned against his cause en masse, so that Kramnik today is considered true champion of the world and Topalov the juvenile pretender. Should Topalov now tie the match or ultimately emerge with the lead, who will regard his victory as meaningful? In the minds of everyone, that point is a gift from FIDE that was unjustly awarded, and it will not count in the final score of public opinion.

Hotep,

Maliq

There is one chess player on the planet who will never be recognised as World Champion, and curiously enough he may be the best player in the world.

Fide did the only thing they could do. Kramnik had no legal right for not showing up for game five. That was very unwise of the Kramnik team. The score must be 3 - 2. Kramnik should accept to himself that he made a mistake by refusing to play game five, and play tomorrow. Guess he won't, though.

Danailov is happy :)

I, too, am very happy that we have TWIC and am truly grateful to Mark for providing us with such a valuable resource.

But I also disagree.
Leaving aside the question of resuming the match with a 3:2 score, which is understandably unacceptable to Kramnik, has no one noticed that Kramnik is again being confronted with an eleventh-hour (quite literal here) decision?
He is not even given one full day to prepare to play again. And I am sure that the events of the past few days were - for him - at least as draining as hard games of chess would have been.

I shall conclude by saying that to my mind, there is now indeed *one* world champion.

Well i hope Kramnik has the character to accept the situation and continue playing. Doubt that he will, though. Not because he is wrong, he isn't not alone anyway, but he did forfeit the game, against the contract which he signed in which he agreed to the appeals committee.

All this talk against Fide is mostly nonsense, i feel sorry for Kirsan if the match falls through. i don't believe even the original appeals committee's decision was "illegal" as claimed. Everyone seems to be under the impression contract was violated because Kramnik originally claimed so, but it doesn't appear to have been as stated by many in recent writings (chessbase, polgar..) but ignored by nearly all. Whether or not the committee's decision was rash is another matter altogether, but the contract doesn't state that Kramnik can not agree to their decision if its not to his liking.

However, the blame falls on Topalov and Danailov - Toppy should give back the point from the ethical point of view. It's just that Kramnik could be the hero of the day and go on to crush the lowclass player Toppy is (i've said that for years!).

If Kramnik bails out, neither player has behaved well. Many insist Kramnik has done nothing but demand his contractual rights, but close inspection of the facts proves otherwise. How is this difficult to see?

Btw, instead of blaming Fide, that arbiter Gijssen is a lot to blame for this. Had he not started the clock...

For the sake of the match, reunification and more interesting and beautiful chessgames this match could provide, i hope a miracle happens and Kramnik concedes.

Who was referee-ing the Ravens / Chargers game? Was it FIDE? Criminal.

Anyway, this is pretty exciting. Will Kramnik show up tonight? He is actually on a freeroll, in terms of public opinion. If he doesn't show up for this game 6, most would understand and he has gained a lot of sympathy.

BUT...if he shows up! The drama. The Big F You to Topalov and his petty mind games. The blinding light shining on Topalov's shameful stolen point, unable to deter the (newly minted) peoples' champion. That has to play on Topalov's nerves. Win or lose from there, Kramnik will still retain his title as peoples' champion, something almost unimaginable with him just a few weeks ago. And if he actually wins the match after this (which he still is favored to do, a +1 score after 5 games is quite an advantage), he has gained so much more than just a FIDE title.

This is still pretty good theatre. Hope Kramnik stays in Elista if just not to ruin the suspense tonight.

I guess, this is time to sign 2 new petitions:
1. To all chess event organizers: to boycott players managed by Silvio Danailov
2. To all interested in chess sponsorship (if any left): give no single penny to events organized by FIDE.

I wish to post an open letter to Mr. Kramnik. Dear Mr. Kramnik, you have outclassed Topolov both on and off the board over the past two weeks. Don't give FIDE the satisfaction of pushing you and your world championship title around. Walk away from this corrupt match and defend your title against another player at a later date. Thank you.

I'm just saying name me a sport where defaulting a game works. It hasn't worked here. There are plenty of occasions in other sports where people cheat but somehow the opponent comes of way worse due to their reaction.

I'm a topalov supporter (moreso before this fiasco). But no matter what happens Kramnik is the world champion--even if he forfeits it. He has still won every championship match he has played. And against the toughest competition in the world. One cannot say the same about any other current player in the world. No matter who he's faced, he has withstood them and won. He is clearly the best match player of current times, hate him or not (and I don't happen to like his style). I'm disappointed in Topalov, but it doesn't change the fact that Kramnik was crushing him, didn't lose a game to Kasparov, crushed everyone in match play. It is what it is. Period.

OMG! What a disgrace for The Royal Game. This is as bad as the steroid scandal and Barry Bonds. Tainted records tarnish the GAME. What about the GAME. The Lovers of THE GAME like Susan et al? Reminds me of The Music Business...90% Business and 10% Music...(explains all of the crap we hear there, too!). I wonder...The Colonel got 50% of Elvis and sued his estate to collect after his departure. What are we looking at here? In biz they say Fear and Greed: we have it all here!
The Darkness has won over with petty selfishness again. Perhaps they should play the game with ALL BLACK PIECES to symbolize what these egomaniacs have done to THE GAME!!! I don't care how smart you are, but if you take advice from a FOOL it makes YOU FOOLISH. Hypocrites!!!

Well, I guess that's it then. Kramnik won't show up and the divide in the chess world will continue for god knows how years more. Topalov always seemed the type of guy who'd rather fight it out on the chessboard than get involved in the off the board nonsense. The same applies to Kramnik too. All this could have been avoided if he'd turned up to game 5 (or even earlier if he'd played in San Luis - but that's another story).

What it is about World Championship matches that turns the players into morons? Just sit down and play!

Maybe there is still hope. There's been so many twists and turns, maybe there is a few more to come!

What extraordinary prescience from Kramnik. Already the moral victor, he calls the bluff of Topalov’s puppeteer. No further resistance is possible. Kramnik will romp home.

From a personal point of view, Kramnik now faces a pleasanat choice: he will be honoured if he agrees to continue from 3:2, and he will be honoured if he abandons the match and leaves FIDE rotting in its own dirt (and possibly goes on to form a new federation).
So what exactly has Danailov gained?

Mark Crowther is dead wrong on this. Geurt Gijssen had no right to start game five as long as there was a breach of contract. Officials making errors and protesting them is one thing, but a breach of contract is extremely serious. There is no way Kramnik is going to lose this in court.

Legally, the score is 3-2
Justice requires the score to be 3-1

Kirsan prefers legality over justice. But the vast majority of chess fans, myself included, prefers justice.

I hope Kramnik abandons the match

Linux, I think Danailov has gained the millions he will still earn being Topalov's manager, because the fact is Topa will still earn millions and be one of the best in the world after this. It's publicity for chess and Fide probably loves them both more than ever now.

If Topalov the cheat wins now he will have to win by more than 2 points to be credible as a WC (world champion).

If Kramnik loses he will blame the phsycological effects of this dispute and will still claim the legitimate WC. So the chess world will be no better.

Should have just forfieted Topalov the cheat. Given the FIDE WC to Kramnik and moved on to the next cycle. Would have sent a clear message that crap like this would not be tolerated.

Danailov took a 1-3 deficit and turned it into a cancellation, a draw if you will. That's two points with a single press release, not bad. Topalov keeps his title and his ticket to the 2007 Mexico City championship. His pride is another matter... But will organizers or anyone else make Topalov pay for this? Can they? A union might, but chess doesn't have one. A strong federation might, but chess doesn't have one. So we're left being angry.

I offer to pay a $50 membership fee to a new federation with Kramnik as world champion in which Topalov will not be allowed to play and the picture of Danailov be put on the urinal cakes in all tournament stalls. Anyone with me on this? :)

As an addendum to my last post, imagine the publicity in the next "world championship" after this. The old maxim is still true, regarding publicity. More people will tune in next time than this time. That's just a fact.

However, Topa and his manager are still a disgrace, and I wanted him to win.

Do you think Mexico City 2007 will happen? Will dignified players like Anand and Svidler take part after this mess?

As for Kirsan preferring legality over justice...are you mad? If Kirsan made an illegal decision, that would open the gates of hell.

i think most people have been prejudiced by the media to see whatever Fide does as evil and corrupt. No sense talking. As ever.

Mig, could we now have a "Dear Mr Kramnik" letter, urging him to walk away from this farce.

I would be very happy to add my name to that.

I don't know for sure that kramnik won't just play. He really wanted to play this match. I think if he has time to sleep on this he may decide to play. The main question I would ask him is this: "Can you keep all of this nonesense out of your head and play chess or will it effect your play?" If he can block it out and focus on the game then I hope he will go ahead and play. I have no question he will win if he can do this. (I also hope he offers a handshake to Topalov but don't really care much on that.) But if it is going to bother him then I hope he refuses.

Of course the question may not be that easy to answer so its hard to say.

In any case it should be clear he should *never* again associate his title with Kirsan.

I don't buy the distinction between Topalov and his agent. Danilov does not say things, like Topalov won't shake hands, unless he has authority from Topalov. In any agency relationship it is the prinicpal - here topalov - who ultimately calls the shots. I don't buy this idea of hiding behind our hand picked agents. That is bolognae.

Two days ago I wrote this in a different thread:

"By the way, can I assume that all of you who believe that Topalov is a "pariah", an evil man with absolutely no morals, a shameful blot on the chess community, etc., have come to the conclusion that Kramnik should not resume play in Elista under any circumstances? That it would be incompatible with human dignity for Kramnik to ever play Topalov again, or in any event under the auspices of the evil FIDE? It doesn't seem that there is a lot of occasion for compromise here, or desire for it."

Aspersions were cast on my intelligence for this, and yet here we are two days later and the number of people publicly encouraging Kramnik to walk away from Elista and declare himself the World Champion is growing exponentially.

This one reason why it is a very bad thing to get behind in a match. Suppose Topalov had won game two and the score were tied at 2-2 at the time of the bathroom complaint. Would there be so much contempt being poured out on Topalov? Would there be so many people who really don't care whether the match continues or not? Would there be so many people willing to agree that sitting in your relaxation room and forfeiting the next game is just exactly the most praiseworthy way to proceed when an arguably biased appeals committee rools against you, and that allowing the forfeit to stand is a crime against humanity? Is there in fact any possibility that Kramnik would have forfeited game 5 if it had meant going behind on points?

I think Mark Crowther is an intelligent and reasonable guy, but I think he may be premature in saying that defaulting a game "hasn't worked here". If in fact Kramnik forfeits tomorrow's game as well and then walks away from Elista, who will be the overall winner? What will the ratio be of people believing Kramnik to be the "true champion" to people believing this of Topalov? Of Kramnik sponsor dollars to FIDE sponsor dollars? Hmm? It seems to me that maybe Mig should think twice about hiring Danailov; Hensel may be the man to hire.

Sorry, but I couldn't resist:
I could deal with Topalov being the champion of Mexico City.

"But will organizers or anyone else make Topalov pay for this? Can they?"

From the various open letters it seems to me that at least chessplayers will, even at the highest level.
Perhaps not shaking hands with him at Mexico City? It could happen.
It is awful to have your colleagues think that you're a cheat and treat you that way.
Topalov might just have ruined his life...

According to chesspro.ru, Ilumzhinov said that the technical problem which didn't allow the score to be 3-1 is that Kramnik didn't file the protest against the result of the game 5 within two hours after it ended (he didn't file it at all).

at 16:59, poel wrote:

There is one chess player on the planet who may never be recognised as World Champion, and curiously enough he may be the best player in the world.

Thank you, poel! I'm blushing....

Topalov !

1) Continue the match 1-3.

2)Try to save some of youre reputation by firing Danaiclownov. He will be totally out of business when this is over. Something you will understand when the reactions from the chessworld reaches youre and Dollarovs brains.

3) Let the best man win. Just like the good old days.

I think regardless of whether Topa had won game 2 and the score were tied, I still think we'd be in this mess if the same situation had happened. Chess is a psychological "sport". Every little thing, every little advantage, is important and moreso in a championship. Imagine just a regular patzer, checking out your opponent, his maneurisms, and then maginify that by a million at their level. It still would have happened, regardless of the score in my opinion. It was a pyschological ploy which worked. It's a shame.

to sacateca:

an illegal decision has already been made, namely to accept an appeal that was filed outside of the allowed 2 hour post game margin specified in the contracts.

quite frankly, I didn't favor any player before the start of the match and maybe even preferred topalov's style of play. At this point it is clear that Kramnik has the moral high ground.

Kramnik will forfeit the next game. It's in his best interest. But after forfeiting that game, and after the match is even, then they can proceed with the rest of the games at a tied score.

kramnik's title is imaginary, and by that i mean non-corporeal. so what hardship is it for him to 'lose' or 'draw' the match by the phantom point? the chess world will let him keep his descendant title regardless of what the notated result is.

so... my advice to him is to play and take home his 500k. and if he wins despite it all Danailov will be properly exposed as being nothing but a plague to his client.

Very good last-minute report on Chesspro - for Russian speaking (maybe someone can translate ?)

So Kirsan picks his own pony, what a surprise.

Grrr

Now I really hope Vladimir plays, wins it, and snubs the Round Robin/Disney version of the title in San Luis.

If Kramnik loses the linage of the Classic World Champion dies with him. Do we want this?

Go Vlad Go !!

I mean it seems to be the best move. If Kramnik forfeits the next game, then that's like a win, since should Kramnik lose the match, who in their right mind would accept Topalov as a champion after two free wins?

I hope Topalov gets banned for life from Wijk, Linares and Dortmund.

I am not predicting what Kramnik will do, but I think he should show up and play. First off, I think there's a sizable probability that he will kick Topalov's butt in the remaining 8 games. It would be an even more impressive achievement if he could say, "I spotted you a free point, and you STILL lost."

Beyond that, Kramnik's problem is that he has no infrastructure that can produce a new challenger. PCA, Braingames, Einstein, Dannemann — none of them are sponsoring chess matches right now, or are likely to again. All of the major players have committed to FIDE. Sooner or later, Kramnik will have to fight a FIDE challenger. He might as well play Topalov, still ahead +1, than play somebody else from a level score.

What's more, the cancellation of this match merely ensures that it will be harder to find a sponsor for the next one (if there IS a next one). As the guy who hopes to be playing in future matches, it's not in Kramnik's interest to reduce their marketability.

And lastly, if Kramnik walks, he forfeits $500,000. That's an awful lot of money to throw away on principle.

And P.S., Mark Crowther is right: forfeiting Game 5 was a tactical blunder.

"According to chesspro.ru, Ilumzhinov said that the technical problem which didn't allow the score to be 3-1 is that Kramnik didn't file the protest against the result of the game 5 within two hours after it ended"

Oh the irony. :) This is turning into a comedy now.

**** that!

He said himself in his first interview after getting back to Elista that technically there are ways for the match to commence with 3-1 and game 5. He's just bending to Danailov's threat of leaving the game - which would leave _him_ with a champ he doesn't want and a completely busted match.

He's just trying to cut his losses. He can't change that Kram will still be considered Classical World Champion. He _can_ change that he's the author of a completely busted match. So he does that.

In a perfect world, at this point topalov would realize his folly, privately promise kramnik to resign upon principle after the first move of the game, both players would show up tomorrow, shake hands amicably, and topalov would keep his promise, resign, and the match would continue from there. Kramnik would be vindicated, topalov's reputation restored (somewhat), and chesslovers would be able to enjoy the rest of the match.

Chances of that happening? Zero. The match is over.

Danailov speaks:
http://www.standartnews.com/en/article.php?d=2006-10-02&article=1056
(It's in "English", and I have no idea where it really comes from or what veracity might be ascribed to it.)

No, I don't think there will be long-term repercussions for Topalov. He'll have the backing for FIDE as long as he doesn't actually complete a match for this title; he still plays some of the most attractive chess at the moment -- and sponsors will surely pay for that. And which chess player will williningly sacrifice an all-too-rare payday to make a "point" about Topalov's recent conduct? Chess is ruled by self-interest, at every level of the game (from the individual player to FIDE itself). Why should this stop now?

Chess is in a parlous state. It has no Plan B. And so we get to keep Topalov for our impoverished sport. Beggars can't be choosers.

"According to chesspro.ru, Ilumzhinov said that the technical problem which didn't allow the score to be 3-1 is that Kramnik didn't file the protest against the result of the game 5 within two hours after it ended"

Despite the tragedy of the whole mess, I had to laugh out loud reading this. Brilliant.

Kramnik has proven to be staunchly principled/stubborn/pigheaded before -- take your pick (depending on your perspective). He would never agree to continuing from 3:2.

I'd be shocked if the match continues from 3:2 tomorrow.

Mig's headline was misleading. Kramnik has not agreed to 3.0-2.0. The match will not resume.
Topalov takes Kramnik's "Classical" WCC title.

As stated Friday 9/29, Kramnik blundered by not playing game 5 under protest. Instead Kramnik used brinksmanship as a negotiation tactic.
Did Hensel earn his pay?

Kramnik blundered again by rejecting Kirsan's offer of 3.0-1.0 with match length increased from 12 games to 14.

Being morally right is not enough Vladimir.

Gene Milener
http://CastleLong.com/

i doubt kramnik will show up tomorrow. the match is over. disgusting. i have changed my mind about topalov. what a crook. anyway mig i agree the appeals committee made a mistake but to call them corrupt is too much.

My hasty translation from chesspro.ru:

"Ilyumzhinov consulted with experienced jurists in Lausanne. They clearly explained to him that he will lose any law court if the result of the [fifth] game is abolished. All the more, he does not even have a juridical testimony for this - the official protest from Kramnik.
The 6th game tomorrow must take place, Kramnik must play Black. Many consider that he will not show up for the game.
Kramnik's assistant to the Brissago match, Peter Svidler arrived today, tomorrow in the morning arrives Yevgeny Bareyev.
Will they only come to help pack things for Vladimir?"

Dear Mr. Kramnik:
I was cheering for you before this, but now I hope you rip his head off and pee down his neck!

Gene, I disagree.
Topalov will, I think, not take Kramnik's title in the view of most of the chess world. He will, of course, tarnish his own. But anything FIDE touches tends to become tawdry and foul. Strange.

And being morally right might indeed be quite enough to satisfy Vladimir. He might even quit after playing the computer match. Why not? He probably has enough money for several pleasant lifetimes in Russia, and may well have enough of chess for several less pleasant lifetimes.

Partial conversation between Topalov and Danailov (translated from Bulgarian):

TOPALOV: Silvio, look, just let get things as before, 3-1, I have prepared a lot for this match, I can still win it.

DANAILOV: What? You have rights, they need to follow the rules. They need to respect you, those idiots of Kramnik and company cannot win.

TOPALOV: They won't respect me if I win this way.

DANAILOV: Veselin, you want to win, or not? Tell me!! If not, then I will leave in the next flight and you will be alone. I wonder what your father would thought about this ... I guess you don't have enough guts ...

TOPALOV: Don't be dramatic, I am the one who train, I am the one who plays, not you. And I need to prove I am the best player of the world.

DANAILOV: Fine, play your beautiful chess and lose, you know ... history just remember the winners. The best player of the world? Thanks to who? To me. I raised you like a father, I gave you all and now you want to leave me? You were nothing without me, remember? Touring all Spain looking for a chance to play 12 years ago ... I guess you forgot, you feel you are the big star now.

TOPALOV: Sorry, I didn't meant to hurt you, we arrive this together, just finish this together.
But I don't want to win this way, people would hate me.

DANAILOV: Just calm down, OK. Don't worry, people may hate you at the moment, the big scandal, the hypocresy, bla bla bla, but then they forget, is not that bad. We are following the rules, we are just gaining a little, you know, just business. Just focus in your game, I take care of it, you donlt know how things work outside. Let people talk whatever they want.

TOPALOV: Are you sure?

DANAILOV: Did I disappointed you before? You know me. Besides, this Kramnik must paid for his arrogance: Did you heard it when he said that he can draw against you so easily that he can paid more attention to the Champions League that the game and still not lose? Does he feel he can humilliate us?

TOPALOV: Well, that was not a big deal.

DANAILOV: Yes it was! You are playing for you land, your family, this is serious. Don't forget it!!! If the Russians believe it is that easy to win easily against us, that we are nothing, they are wrong. Do you understand? They are wrong!

TOPALOV: Ok, I am going to prepare with the guys, see you in the dinner.

DANAILOV: That's my boy, we are going to win it. See you.

"i have my own suspicions about what was happening there but they are doubtless libellous. the whole fide crew-their champion, their managers and their officials are just a bunch of ***** as far as i am concerned -i briefly thought kirsan had the best interests of the match, chess and his own nation at heart but this midnight press release shatters that illusion as well. i truly hope vlad walks now from this nest of vipers-he cannot win against such odds." -- Ray Keene

Pascual:

What the hell are you doing? Is this some sort of halluncination from an addled mind, or what? If so, it doesn't work as comedy, it doesn't work as information, it doesn't at all add anything but mindless rambling.

If it is in fact something you overheard first hand and are standing by it as fact, please say so it would add very much to the picture of Elista. If not, please take your meds, it is time.

Acirce, is that a direct quotation from Keene? If so, could you supply the source?

Difficult imagining Svidler and Bareev arrived if the plan is to leave!

Dear Stern,

Do I need to specify this as "fictional conversation" to make this clear. This is not attempt of comedy (if you think there is something comic in the whole situation), is a way to express my opinion of the lack of independence of Topalov. I am sure he wouldn't wish this situation and you may take a look to the link provided by Charles Milton (see above) on supposedly declarations of Danailov (I am still doubtful of the authenticity, I would not believe a manager would say so much crap).

I understand why the proposal of Kirsan of forcing the match to 14 games, even if I don't agree with the whole process. He knows that if Danailov and the Bulgarian Federation demand in court, they would win the case of the 3-2, so, the only solution they might see is something like: Default point by Topalov, Topalov (if he wish) return the point by default and then we add two extra games to compensate. If Topalov defaults a point with the same lenght of the match, is like having two draws in games 5, 6, so less opportunities to catch up.

But at the end, this whole thing seems to depend on politicians (Bulgarian, Russian), unless the players act INDEPENDENTLY and stand their OWN position ... but from Topalov side, I don;t believe this is going to happen.

Theorist, http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=15438

Stern:

Don't get your panties in a knot. The way I read it, it's an amusing, plausible scenario for how (roughly speaking) the dynamics between Topalov and Danialov might have played out.

It occasionally happens in chess that you get some bizarre agent/player relationships, like the Rustam/Gata Kamsky relationship. Since Topalov doesn't seem to be a bad guy, one must wonder why keeps on working with a scumbag like Danialov. The above scenario is an amusing illustration of the possible nature of their relationship.

Apparently Kramnik has agreed to play from 3:2.
Here is the info:

http://www.interfax.ru/r/B/politics/2.html?id_issue=11596772

Pascual,

That is a good one!!! Give us another for Kramnik and Hensel, and one for Kirsan and ... whoever.

It occurs to me that the referees who officiated the Oregon-Oklahoma football game a few weeks ago have gotten their inspiration from FIDE. Few could look at blatant wrong calls and stand by them as vociferously as this.

Linux, could you roughly translate again? :o) thanks!

With so much information coming from so many sources, including Russian and Bulgarian news papers, I was truly unclear what that post of Pascual's was all about. The whole "translated from Bulgarian" made me think he was serious, since it is otherwise just a lame piece of fiction that illuminates nothing. I couldn't believe someone would take the time to write up that limp piece of fiction unless it had some fact to it, so I thought there was a chance it was actually for real. My mistake, I guess.

Why not make Danilov and Topalov gay lovers in the next fiction and make this whole protest by them an affirmation of gay rights? Or Kramnik and Hansel a master/slave combo bent on taking over the world? That would add just as much to the discussion as Pascual's little dream sequence he thought was worth sharing, for whatever reason. Hey, if it was funny, I'm all for it, but lame fiction just lingers like a fart in the room.

rather, translate roughly! lol

today I wish I spoke russian.

Linux fan, I haven't used Russian for some 30 years, so I may be hugely mistaken, but isn't this just the repetition of what we have known already?

Wouldn't Kramnik's victory (and his popularity) be all the greater if he overcame this disgraceful mess, played at the bogus 3-2 and still kicked Topalov's miserable behind?

Just asking.

Nothing new really, just saying that both parties agreed, and it seems to be fresh news.
But then, who knows how valid it is.

2nd October, 1:03 AM
"After consultating with V. Kramnik an hour ago and now with V.Topalov, there is a solution accepted - tomorrow the match will continue with the sixth game. Naturally, the result being 3:2. At 15:00 the main arbiter Mr. Geissen will start he clocks" - stated the President OF FIDE Kirsan Ilyumzhinov to journalists on Sunday in Elista."

My lame attempt:

2 October 2006, 1:03

Kramnik and Topalov agreed to continue the match from 3:2 - Ilyumzhinov

Match between Topalov and Kramnik will continue in Elista on Monday. Sixth party will be played, with the score 3:2 for the Russian grossmeister.

"After the consultations with Kramnik an hour ago and with Topalov right now, I took the decision - continuation of the match tomorrow, the sixth game tomorrow. Naturally, it will start with the score 3:2. At 15:00 head arbiter Mr Geysen starts the clock" - said FIDE president, head of Kalmykia Kirsan Ilyumzhinov to the journalists in Elista.

Head of FIDE also said, that the questions concerning Topalov's team demands on how frequent does Kramnik visit the bathroom, as well as Kramnik's team demands on the AK, were resolved.

Nah, this is COMPLETELY NEW, Linux fan, and thank you.
I didn't understand "solution accepted", just thought it was Kirsan saying what he wanted to happen.

Amazing, if true.

"I took the decision" or "there is a solution accepted"...?

It's been Monday in Elista for three hours now. If Kirsan said in an interview on Sunday that a solution was accepted (by all parties) you'd expect it to be on Chessbase and elsewhere by now?

мною было принято решение - I took the decision

Indeed, AZ79. Don't make me try to find my Russian dictionaries, please, you nice people out there!

Thank you, ML. Now I can go to bed calmly, knowing that my work will not be interrupted tomorrow.

The Official FIDE Press release from 24:00 says that "The FIDE President has made several proposals for further continuation of the match, which unfortunately were not accepted. "

I'd hate to make this into a translation topic :)
If it's just the same news again, I'm sorry. It seemed different to me with the title, the time stamp and the implication of Kramnik agreeing.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8110762384845644778&q=david%2Bshenk&hl=en

Paul Marshall was Bobby Fischer's lawyer during Spassky-Fischer 1972. From the above 36 minutes video documentary:

"I had learned that once you start a world championship, you may never change the conditions of play. So they put back the fixture; I demand they restore the house flies."

Gene Milener
http://CastleLong.com/

About that "post-negotiation interview with Danailov," have you ever seen such an absurd interview? The interviewer asked him no real questions. It is almost as if Danailov wrote the questions himself and gave the answers to his own questions.

I wonder in the other hand, the effect of starting tomorrow a game with 3-2. This would put a huge psychological pressure on Topalov; not only because this puts more comprimise to win, but also to win in such a way that people won't attribute his victory to the default point instead of superriority over his opponent.

Knowing in the past Topalov's profile, this could make Topalov play under his possibilities. Also, the arrival of Svidler and Bareev to Elista put the pressure on Topalov, by saying he is "alone" and all Russian players are against him. In other words, this this, is not Kramnik remind us of the old Karpov days (as Kasparov quoted in the past on how Karpov received novelties from Russian players)?

In other words, is between a 3-1 against an opponent that want to catch up Kramnik, or 3-2 against an opponent that feels the compromise to not only draw, but also defeat Kramnik for 1 point to make sense that he is not inferior to Kramnik, or 2 points to prove he is better and defeat the best Russian players. Now, Kramnik knows that tying the match is a triumph for him in people's eyes and a humilliation to Topalov;s team (we gave you a game and still you didn't defeated me). Psychologically, this seems to work in Kramnik favour.

In other words, as in the past, Kramnik has nothing to lose. If he "loses" the match, he has the excuse this was a consecuence of the forfeited game. If he draws, he can say that he is the moral winner of the match and people would ackowledge this. And of course, if he wins, is also a humilliation to his opponent.

Kramnik has the perfect option to continue; for example, if instead of preparing for the game, at 1:00am they still need to take care of negociations, this is not helping Topalov because he wants to focus in his preparation; on the other hand, Kramnik would not care, he has an excuse now.

Thanks to Topalov's poor management in the hand of Danailov, Kramnik has eliminated any possible pressure in the rest of the match and Topalov has duplicated his own, besides the effect among his fans.

I don't know if people see in this way, but Kramnik is the biggest winner of this situation ... Danailov is also a winner (he wanted a protest, to reduce the two point advantage?), but at the same time has crucified Topalov.

Danailov just dropped a usual amount of dirt on Kramnik again. And on Russians, also.

Mig,
Would you consider to donate the "Daily Dirt" TM to Danailov? He is in class of his own in this.

Regarding Svidler and Bareev, they are friends to Vlad, and show him support by coming. This is far from Soviet policies of Karpov vs. others matches.

... and you can be damn sure that if there's any opening novelty Svidler or Bareev have hidden so far from Kram that might help him against Top - there won't be anymore :o))

According to Yury Vasiliev on ChessPro.ru, the real mistake Kramnik made was not to launch an appeal after the 5th game. Had he done so, Ilumzhinov would have had the grounds for reconsidering the score. As it is, Topalov did not agree to change the score, so Ilumzhinov felt that he had no choice.

Vasiliev also writes that Svidler and Bareev are arriving to Elista, presumably not to pack up Kramnik's suitcases, but help him play on.

Why do you people keep blaming Danailov he is just an employee of Topalov?

OMG! It's going to be a busy night for Danailov. Working on another appeal - this time against arrival of Svidler and Bareev...

An interesting question: Will Kramnik be required to pay a forfeit penalty under contract in case he is leaving?

Perhaps Svidler and Bareev are just new members of the Appeals Committee ;-)
It never was reported -- who are the members of the new committee?

www.64.ru mentioned 2 members
http://www.64.ru/?/ru/articles/item=1220
– Кто войдет в состав нового Апелляционного комитета?
– Я вызвал Файка Гасанова и Бориса Кутина – они уже прибыли в Москву, едут в Элисту.

As I unserstand, the new Committee members are Kirsan, Faik Gasanov and Boris Kutin (not sure about spelling, especially Gasanov). These were agreed by both players according to the interview with Kirsan:
http://www.64.ru/?/ru/articles/item=1220

Faig Gasanov (Azerbaijan) - FIDE International Arbiter
http://www.fide.com/official/arb.asp?id=113
Boris Kutin (Slovenia) - FIDE Continental President for Europe
http://www.fide.com/official/officials.asp?f=1

Everyone here is eager to criticize Topalov and congratulate Kramnik on "ethics" but where were they when Kramnik agreed to play Kasparov in 2000, despite being demolished by Shirov in the semi-finals. Weren't "ethics" applicable then? Ask poor Shirov about Kramnik's moral claims...

@Giannis: *yawn

Kramnik has the moral right (in my opinion at least) to fly home tomorrow and declare himself the victor and sole legitimate world champion. I don't think that would work out well for him in the long run. This whole episode, rightly or wrongly, is not likely to have made him or chess more attractive to sponsors. I very much doubt he will have as many financial opportunities out of FIDE as in it.

You can be very hungry and morally correct. I hope Kramnik resumes tomorrow. The world would miss the chess if the match ends, and chess would slip yet further in world esteem.

gianns, kramnik wasnot responsibole for the failure of the shirov-kasparov match it failed because of the money that shirov asked was too much and then kasparov offered anand a chance and anand refused then he offered kramnik who accepted

Well guys, seems like they tried to save something in the English version. Or they were just lazy. Check this out http://www.veselintopalov.net/article/the-truth-behind-the-events-in-elista

The whole story in Elista from Danailov's point of view: http://www.veselintopalov.net/article/the-truth-behind-the-events-in-elista

An interesting part:

- Will Topalov shake hands with Kramnik?

- We will see. For sure he does not want to give press conferences with him. Kramnik was very arrogant to him. Besides, he was constantly offering him draws and making him nervous. Maybe a handshake in the name of fairplay will be present.

Oh yeah ggg.

A very sorry and "ethical" Kramnik decided to flush Shirov and played for less... If you really buy it then yes, Kramnik is a saint. Let's all drink to the honesty of Vlad the Painter...

Of course Vlad the Kramnik is not a saint, and thigns start to come out of his kitchen.... Lets wait for some more news tomorrow.
Will the game take place?

Giannis, seems like Topalov had a reason not to shake hands. If it is true about Kramniks behavior, not even saying hi to Topalov, then....
The fairplay part is good I think

Thus in a good law court man can't see a bad decision cancelled as all the consequences of the bad decision?

Come on? what on earth would refrain the fide to cancelled the bad members, their decisions and all the effect of it?

Instead of bad faith, hypocrism and so and so: nothing to my point of view.

I hope kramnik will fly away, he will be the sole world champion right now.

Being the unlucky owner of an expensive, painful and chronic disease there is a big and understandible incentive for Kramnik not to have the match end prematurely. Kramnik also knows that it is in Topalov's interest to end it, so he would seem forced to make a concession. Odds are still in his favour at 3:2.

http://www.veselintopalov.net/article/the-truth-behind-the-events-in-elista

(Presumably an interview after the latest FIDE Press release?!)

That's just unbeliveable. Danailov is still going on with the cheating insinuations and other personal attacks. They are supposed to be reaching a peace deal, and this man continues his character assassination. You couldn't invent it. He even denies Kramnik has any health problems! He claims Kramnik doesn't want to drink water during games, and that it's Kramnik who has been insulting and arrogant here, and all they ever wanted was just to play chess! etc. He is lying, twisting things and so on. Aren't there any rules against such behaviour in their contracts?

Unreal.

Well if he is lying why does not Kramnik let media have the records? hint hint

If there was evidence of cheating, they would have said so, otherwise I don't think it's anybodies (except for maybe an arbiters) business how he moves around the rest room. If there's evidence of cheating fine, but there's not, so no reason to release the tapes.

my 2cents

from reading elsewhere.

apparently there is good reason to believe that Kramnik is Jewish and that Monday is their holiest of days Yom Kippur. Now Monday I believe was suppose to be a rest day. so that would be OK with someone for whom it is important.

but now apparently the question comes up. Is Kramnik being given an ultimatum to play chess on the holiest of days.

I dont know. Hopefully someone can find the answer.

This kind of timing and action just looks too orchestrated and set up. Kramnik went to play in the den of the thieves and now is being robbed.

It just seemed to me the actions of the Appeals Committee had to be in accordance with Kirsan's wishes. so he dismisses them gets kramnik to "trust" Kirsan and then the death blow is struck by Kirsan himself.

If Kramnik plays the drama off stage will continue. I no longer believe that Kirsan and company ever intended to give Kramnik any chance at all of winning. thus everyone kneew Topalov would play Radjabov. they never considered that Topalov might lose.

what a farce played out on the world stage. if Putin accepts this he is being duped also.

What we need is a nice lawyer who specializes in things like this mess we have.
Can anybody here (after looking over the legal stuff and the protests and the resignation of the Appellation committee – and what that meats in terms of legal recognition or their previous decisions) give us an objective ruling as to what should be done and from what score should the match continue? I emphasize objective!

Danailov continues attacking Kramnik because his only hope is Kramnik forfeiting the match, IMHO

If Kramnik does continue the match... he's been robbed of a point.

I'm disgusted at Topalov. I was actually wary about signing that letter- when I did I was more of the more established people to sign it at that time.

This was an obvious and deliberate tactic to gain a point. I half hope the match is cancelled- because then I will regard Kramnik as the new World Champion.

Issues like this are further reason why Bulgaria, with all its corruption, should not be allowed into the EU and my future voting in elections will reflect this.

Frank, this is how rumors get started, so let's stop this one: October 2 was the scheduled date for Game 7 from the beginning.

"Kramnik has the moral right (in my opinion at least) to fly home tomorrow and declare himself the victor and sole legitimate world champion. I don't think that would work out well for him in the long run."

It would be bad for him and bad for chess. It would be bad for him personally, because he wouldn't get his $500,000 share of the purse. And besides, where is he going to find another opponent? And who is going to sponsor such a match in the future if this one blows up?

Topalov is a nice guy. Stop attacking him. Why is all this anger on him since he did not do anything nor said anything.

Instead of seeing game 5, I'd rather watch Putin send in KGB to "negotiate" with Danailov...

So what are the odds of Kramnik playing tomorrow? Personally I'd guess less than 5%. But this match is so bizarre I suppose anything is possible.

Kramnik behaved weird with the toilet behavior. Topalov protested, rightly. Kramnik defaulted, wrongly. Kramnik wants the point back and the right to continue behaving weird.

Kramnik is totally wrong in this whole issue.

Whoa
I think both Topalov and his managers are scumbags. However I do not think we should stoop to thier level and try to act as though all Bulgarians would be so low.

Lets not add heat by generalizing entire countries. Of course, one shouldn't be surprised by this since Topalov has always been bedfellows with Kirsan.

They are saying these things to break kramniks stride from the beginning of the match. If Kramnik is angry or emotional then he won't play his best and he may not be able to sleep well. This is the intent of these lowlives.

Topalov will try to shake hands with Kramnik. He will try to swing support his way, it would be absolutely ridiculous to refuse a handshake after getting a point based on such BS.

I think Kramnik will play under protest for the point. But I'm not sure.

Go Kramnik!

I don't get it. I have not read all the posts everywhere, so maybe I have missed something, but is someone able to explain:

(1) If Kramnik has a condition that necessitates going to the toilet frequently, why didn't he advise the organisers, Tournament Committee, etc, and his opponent, of this before the match started, so as to avoid suspicion?
(2) If Kramnik does not have such a condition, then wouldn't Topalov have had some grounds for being disturbed by, and suspicious of, his behaviour?
(3) If Iyumzhinov has a 'legal' problem in returning the score to 3-1, how come he was able to offer 3-1 with an increase in the number of games to 14 or 16? Strange that what Topalov wants seems to be able to override any 'legal' problems.

Well, I hope one thing happens: That Kramnik plays and destroys Topalov for the remainder of the match. Then the forfeited game won't matter and we'll have a single and respected world champion.

sarateca, please read things with a broader mind: justice includes legality.

Anyway, the point is that Kirsan wallows in legalities and in so doing, commits injustice

If kramnik plays then there will be a topalov protest after the game and every game. there will be new protests upon protests. he will always be accused of arrogance etc.

the off the board brinkmanship to steal Kramnik's crown has not ended. It has just begun. Kramnik is a chicken in a den of foxes. dont worry the fox will not lose. the chicken will be eaten. the only chance the chicken has is to run away immediately. do you really think the fox will not eat the chicken tomorrow and every day.

"- What does Topalov think?

(Danailov)- He wants to play but he is shocked by Kramnik's behavior because he is impudent and constantly insults him. He always offers draws and does everything to make Topalov nervous."

-this isn't grad school...poor response. this is the highest level of chess in the world and a draw offer makes him nervous? Sad Bulgarian Couscous.

If Topalov wins the match by 2.5 points...all will be ok.

If not, he is not the WC.

Any idea how often Kramnik offered the draw to Topalov? I have heard one story from Game 4, but that's it. BTW, anybody else feel like one of the most effective ways of dealing with excessive draws is to list each draw offer in the game log. That will draw attention to excessive peace seekers.

"If Iyumzhinov has a 'legal' problem in returning the score to 3-1, how come he was able to offer 3-1 with an increase in the number of games to 14 or 16? Strange that what Topalov wants seems to be able to override any 'legal' problems."

He was able to offer 3-1 with different number of games because if BOTH players agreed to this, there would be no problems. He tried to offer something they both agree to. Since they didn't agree on anything, the only 'legal' way was to continue with 3-2.

The real problem was Kramnik talking about Football during the press conference...he insulted topalov emotionally who in turn told his manager to start the screw game.

funny how these are issues that I face as a teacher everyday...except the kids are a little younger. Chess prodigies don't age well.

By the way, Topalov didn't agree to this variant with 14-16 games. He just said that he didn't mind in principle but wanted to hear what Kramnik says first and after Kramnik immediately rejected this offer, Danailov said that their team didn't agree to this either.

Sheepish,

No, that's what I was thinking; however, people will complain that the controversy threw Kramnik off of his game.

If he wins by 2.5 or more, people bashing him will jump right back on his band wagon.

I meant "some" people will jump back on the Topalov gravy train and others will continue to resent him.

Andrey, thanks. One nevertheless feels that if Ilyumzhinov was Kramnik's pal instead of Topalov's, it would be 3-1, and we wouldn't have heard of any 'legal' impediment. As far as FIDE rules go, Ilyumzhinov is a law unto himself.

Mark Howitt, I think you ought to have been wary of signing the letter because, inter alia, it was addressed to just one of the two participants, it contained preening and unctuous language and was poorly written to boot.

Kramnik did not blunder when he no-showed the fifth game: Topalov was a promiscuous opportunist for showing up with an unresolved situation in the balance and signing the scoresheets with his big ol' scat-chomping grin. If Kramnik plays tomorrow, then Hensel is now Danailov's bitch and GM Ivanchuk is proven right in his description of Toplalov as a "vampire".

Well, I don’t typically use language of this kind in public, but what a swirling load of crap this has become.

Forever now Topalov’s name is dirt, his beautiful chess is now a secondary consideration.

I hope that Mig is right now working on a clear authoritative account of these events. This is so important, compared to letting hostile and indifferent journalists write derisory and false stories about our sport. The derision should be for the cheats within the sport, not the sport itself.

I saw the laughable absurd nonsense posted above by Pascual. I too think he should take his tablets. But then one step removed, if you pop onto e.g. the ICC you will, now and for weeks to come, encounter all sorts of speculative ill-informed ignorant and frankly quite mental nonsense, people vehemently repeating Danailov’s lies about Kramnik, drawing analogies between the cheat Rosenberg and Kramnik (or as in the ridiculous posts above, analogies between kramniks remarks about football and danailov's scurillous libels, for godssake, you really think they are equivalent?), giving their bush lawyer views about the legality of this or that as if all this happened outside the New York Circuit Court of Appeals rather than in the wild and lawless east.

I couldn’t care whether Kramnik plays tomorrow. This is all thoroughly compromised.

I pray that a litany of deserved derision will rain down on Kirsan, and Makropoulos, and Azmaiparashvilli, and Topalov, and of course the unspeakable liar Danailov. A pox on all their houses.

This hope might be fulfilled because this really is a great human interest story. It is nothing to do with chess. Think what we have as elements for the story: the truth about Kirsan as corrupt, manipulative, violent and superstitious; the background stories from the last Olympiad and elsewhere, well established, about Makropoulos and particularly about the hateful cheat Azmaiparashvilli; and the sensationally discrediting photographs of Topalov and Danailov with their fixed idiot grins because of the success of their low unsporting strategy in stealing a point. There’s a Pulitzer waiting out there with someone’s name on it.

I hope Kramnik returns to the table breathing fire and blows Topalov off the board.

No matter what happens Kramnik has already won - even if he walks away or plays and loses. Or at least in all cases Topalov will not be a winner.

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=13118012&postID=115975555662639692

Georgio Makropoulos posted, on Susan Polgar's blog, a long letter he wrote attempting to defend his actions on the FIDE Appeals Committee.

I posted some rebuttles.

Gene Milener
http://CastleLong.com/

Guys, I'm amazed. I haven't seen a single post blaming Kasparov for all this. Don't you realise that this is all a dirty plot on his part to so devalue the title that he can claim he was the last Real World Champion!?

I think psychologically Kramnik must be bleeding.... Topalov is incapable of feeling remorse or even the slightest discomfort at what he and his "team" have done. Let's hope Kramnik will win the match despite all of this.

By the way, this way Topalov gets three straight whites: games 4, 6 and 7 (change of colors for the second half of the match)! And a free point from game 5 to boot! Long live JUSTICE and long live FIDE! (Sorry, had to try the two words in the same sentence and it sounded really bad!)

somehow I do understand Kirsan decision: it is not correct from a moral point of view, but of legal point of view it might be simplest decision: the question is not was the contract breached (it was), but was Kramnik legaly correct not to play? This is, I think, a legal far complexer question than when he would order the 2 players to play again at 3-1 and Topalov would sue FIDE because they didn't count the forfeit. This is why I think Kirsan tried to get the players to compromise.

"As Mark points out below, and as he and others pointed out at the time, Kramnik's not showing up for game five was a blunder no matter how right he was. You do as the officials say, under protest, and save your moral outrage for later."

This assumes that, in both cases, the purpose is to continue the match. By refusing to play, Kramnik showed how important the issues were to him. This was in fact the only way to convey the magnitude of his feelings and principles, since the appeals committee was so clearly biased.

The results in any sporting event are rarely overturned, period, regardless of whether a protest is lodged during or after the event. If you feel so strongly that you have been wronged, and you are a man of principle, then by default you have no choice but to stop your participation in whatever proceedings you are involved in, and make your protest the most important thing---above all pragmatic reasoning, your personal honor is what drives you.

Pointing out that Kramnik's protest won't "work" is to assume that it is part of a crafted plan, a "maneuver" designed to produce some projected result. This ignores what in fact is happening. Kramnik is defending himself, and the only result he wants from it is respect. Respect will naturally include restoring the point, but that is secondary to his desire for an apology. It just happens to follow that, if Topalov were to apologise, he would most likely support the surrendering the forfeit point.

We all know this will not happen. Neither player is going to back down at this point. Kramnik is legitamately defending his principles. Topalov must pretend that his rat-like tactics were justified all along, because if he doesn't, he will have to admit that he was either (1) Being a total rat by making his manager file those ridiculous protests, or (2) A puppet on Danailov's strings from the beginning. By refusing to back down, Topalov can at least pretend to show that he and Danailov are of the same mind, in the event they actually aren't.

It is so easy for us to demand that Kramnik admit that he "blundered" and just continue with the match. But Kramnik's personal honor does not emerge from a pile of money, or the desire to entertain millions of chess fans. It comes from the most fundamental human feeling that, when you are wronged, you throw everything else aside and demand respect. Of course there are consequences, but sometimes it is better to sleep at night.

We want Kramnik to continue because we are selfish. We want to see powerful chess games. The bottom line is that Kramnik refuses to be called a cheater, and will not tolerate any changes to the contract on such a weak basis, nor submit to invasions of privacy, nor surrender any points because he was forced to defend himself on this very important issue.

It is NEVER a blunder to stand up for your principles. Moral outrage belongs in the moment, not when the dust is settled, in some closed chambers before some inept committee that exchanges yawns and decides that your personal honor is not important to them.

Great, so he can have respect and we can have a cancelled world championship unification match. Yay for us! Whoopee! Let's all fall down all over ourselves to see who can be more self-righteous and right.

If the tidbits are true that Kirsan had legal advice from Lausanne saying Kramnik's case is weaker than Topalov's for procedural or formal or whatever reason,

then I could very well imagine Kirsan saying to Zhukov/Putin the following rationale:

it's better to let Kramnik play from 3-2 and have a chance to win the match rather than losing the title in litigation against Topalov.

So, yeah, I believe we will see game 6 in less than 6 hours from now ... what a filthy world!

It's not always about 'us' or 'me'. There are things higher than simple selfishness. If that is hard to see, I suggest hooking up with Danailov - he's your guy.

If Kramnik walks away he will be not at fault in any way. He will just be the Only Real Chess World Champion.

It looks like the dead end of the issue. I don't think Kramnik will accept the desicion. Bye-bye World Championship.

If Kramnik plays, we're about to hit the change of colors.

He would have Black in two consecutive games (heh--three--four, six, seven). Topalov will be playing for two wins. If he presses as hard as he did in games one and two, one point seems more likely.

So if Kramnik plays & survives the storm, he has 5 rounds to go and an extra White. This is T's best chance to tie the match.

"Yay for us!"

Did Kramnik kick you in the balls? No, he deprived you of some entertainment. Go on with your weeping.

You can't even sacrifice your desire to be entertained, yet you want Kramnik to sacrifice his honor and respect. Whoopie! Let's all fall down all over ourselves because we're demanding that someone entertain us.

Mr X, So Kasparov will have to write 'My Great Successor' after all then!?

For the record, I hope that Kramnik DOES continue the match. But that is for my own selfish reasons. I think that wanting him to make a huge sacrifice is okay. We just have no right to insist that he do so, merely because we think we are in posession of some higher faculties, and our "big picture" is the more important view.

Kramnik got a raw deal and it wasn't his fault. But it's a sport, not the moral olympics. His walking away in the face of a bad decision against him is not to his credit. I don't blame him, necessarily, but all this about him being some hero is silly. Victim, surely, but he also tricked himself by not playing in game five.

How will history frame all of this?

The vast majority of the emotional wattage in the above posts comes from the "heat of the moment". Of course this controversy is very disgusting to those that care about unification and the quality of chess played. I'm trying to figure out how all this looks 10, 20, 100 years from now. No matter what happens over the next two weeks, none of this can permanently damage our games unparalleled legacy....it just casts a shadow over chess in the new millenium (a drop in the barrel, all things considered).

The game forfeiture is of most interest from a historical viewpoint. The toliet issue, although ridiculously absurd and embarasing, is no worse than the antics of the Zhukars and Father Kamskys and Fischers that have come before. The forfeit, however, threatens to invalidate the results of the match on a grander, more permanent scale. The only other WC match that involved a forfeit, to my knowledge, was Fischer-Spassky (please correct if I'm wrong).

Had Spassky won, would we have considered the result invalid? Unlikely. We would have blamed Fischer for not showing. If Vlad wins, the victory is greater for overcoming the forfeit (like Fischer). If Topa wins, he gets an asterisk. I'm thinking that with every year that passes the asterisk gets smaller as we forget exactly why or at least lose the strength of emotions seen above. (I know there are a zillion differences between 72 Iceland and 2006 Elista but what % of chess players, much less the general public, know why Fischer forfeited or even what game it was...I think/hope most everyone here does but I hope you see my point)

We still have the bulk of the match to play and both players can still make their own fortunes at the board. It seems to me that this is what will be remembered and what we should be looking forward to.

ok, Kramnik continue playing then what? Danailov protest was so stupid that he could start all this again for whatever reason if his pupil stay down in the score. "Kramnik make too much noise when he walks", "Kramnik disrespect Topalov because he is taller" "Russia invaded Bulgary in 1944, so they are cheating", I dont know, any weird stuff. Any nonsense. If you put the bathroom beside this, it seems clearly possible. There is no way this match continues, because Danailov lose a lot of money if Topaclown loses. Remember his comission is 50% of the clown's earning

shane: "I hope that Mig is right now working on a clear authoritative account of these events. This is so important, compared to letting hostile and indifferent journalists write derisory and false stories about our sport."

With respect, Mig in not qualified to write the clear auhoritative account of these events. And not just because he hasn't spent a single second in Elista and has no first hand account of the events, but because he has interests and ties in the chess world that will always call into question his objectivity, fair or not. That is why I do not consider Mig a journalist in any sense - more of a columnist.

I think what your are looking for is exactly suited for an "indifferent journalist", the indifference being a boon instead of a bane. Journalists SHOULD have a bit of detachment from the subject matter.

I'm sure there are plenty of writers on the site digging into as much action and detail as the past few days have provided, either for a book on the match that they were planning to write all along (and this fiasco is a bit of a godsend for them, assuming the match continues) or a well paid article in a chess rag if it is cut short.

Chris Anderson - nice post, well written and intersting.

I hesitate to write this because of its inherent suckupness but......if Mig isn't qualified to write about this, who is? Where can I read a better account of whats happening or find better questions about the meaning of these events. Mig is certainly colorful, but its not like hes producing a tabloid (despite some of our best efforts). I think the posts on this sites main page cut to the core of the issues as well as anything out there...its pretty obvious whats "fact" and "migs opinion". Both are welcome and much more interesting than regurgitated press releases.

well round and round we go .. i thought a little light relief was required. Some bloke came on ICC a little while ago. He was asking what had happened in Elista. And he was getting a brief summary, but would not stop butting in with fairly inane questions. His last question, which ended the summary and left my jaw on my desk, was "so what was the touch rule thing that kramnik did" LOL.
(and chris, perhaps you are right, i dont know, but perhaps great journalism doesnt have to be reportage, and great writing does not have to be neutral or independent)

Photos, Danailov can't lose money from this match both players are guaranteed same $500k. Unless you're referring the the future Radjobov match they booked assuming that Topalov beats Kramnik.

wizardofoz:"I hesitate to write this because of its inherent suckupness but......if Mig isn't qualified to write about this, who is? Where can I read a better account of whats happening or find better questions about the meaning of these events."

Well, let me put it to you this way. Maybe with one or possibly two exceptions, no one here (including Mig) has a)seen the Kramnik Restroom tapes to see if they really merit suspicion, b) attended the press conference where Kramnik supposedly insulted Topalov with his football remarks, c) have any idea how often and in what manner Kramnik offered draws to Topalov, d) got to get a personl 'read' on the principals involved by being in the same room with them, including Danilov, Hansel, Kirsan, Topalov, Kramnik to indicate their motives, e) were on-site for that momentous Game 5 day to see the drama play out live, f)have toured the restrooms to see how they are located with respect to the game room and the bathrooms themselves, g), h), etc. etc.

Yet many of us, including MYSELF and Mig, have clearly sided with one of the parties over the other in our comments to date. I would submit that all who have done so without all the factors above (again, including MYSELF first and foremost) are unqualified to be unbiased at this point and therefore should not be considered to be the one to give a truly objective, journalistic accounting of the actions in Elista. I don't see any hypocracy because I have absolutely no claim (or desire!) to be considered anything more than a chess fan, and a casual one at that (I actually like all this drama for entertainment, and feel no anger/disgust/high emotions towards what has happened).

I of course don't speak for Mig, but I can't see how he should be the one chosen to give the objective, unbiased account. A scathing, entertaining summary with opinions and comments, definitely, but not a journalistic one.

To Shane - there is some mix up, I'm not Chris Anderson, I was trying to pay him a compliment and instead it looked like I signed my post with his name.

Let me join the throng and say that I really liked Chris Anderson's posts as well.

I suppose this probably won't really matter since it's doubtful that Kramnik will agree to play Game 6, but I wanted to confirm that his chances were better at +2 in a longer match than at +1 in the 12-game match, since one compromise that was apparently discussed was to let Kramnik keep his +2 lead but to extend the match. So I ran some calculations and confirmed that he would indeed do better to keep the +2 lead, and I wanted to take the opportunity to share some numbers.

A key question is whether Topalov really is stronger than Kramnik, as the pre-match ratings would suggest. Topalov's FIDE rating was 70 points higher, and even if you just looked at pre-match results from 2006 (where Kramnik had done relatively better than in past years), Topalov still looked to be about 30 points stronger. Of course, on the flip side are the results of the first four games. I did a statistical Maximum Likelihood Estimate and right now my best guess is that they are equal in strength. So assuming that they are equal in strength, obviously if they started over with a 12-game match, Kramnik would have a 50% chance to win (after tiebreaks if necessary). Being up +2 after four games, Kramnik's chance to win the match was 84%, but the game 5 forfeit (with White) reduces that to 69%. If they had compromised at Kramnik retaining his two-point lead after four games but extending the match, his overall winning chances from a +2 score going into Game 5 would be 82% in a 14-game match and 80% in a 16-game match. Of course, that's assuming they are equal in strength; the numbers change if you assume that one or the other is actually stronger.

Whether or not Vladimir Kramnik plays Game 6, I personally would support and respect whichever choice he makes. As a chess fan I would love to see more of these thrilling games and to see greater clarity in the world championship situation, so I would love to see Kramnik take his shot with that 69% chance with his +1 score. It would be great for the chess world if he sacrificed the forfeited point and continued. But as a fellow human being I would respect and admire Kramnik's principled stand if he were to withdraw at this point, however bad it is for the chess world or the world championship picture. To have your personal bathroom activities scrutinized, criticized, and ridiculed around the world, when you have apparently done nothing worse than choosing to spend much of your thinking time in your designated private area rather than sitting in your chair, is just revolting, and a deep personal violation. I can sympathize with someone who likes to move around in a non-distracting way while he thinks, or someone who is suffering from a medical condition that affects his activities during a game, or just someone who has his own personal reasons for doing whatever he needs to do, off-stage. How could anyone possibly criticize him, complain about him, or penalize him, for that? I'm sorry for Vladimir Kramnik to be put through all of this, and if it does turn out bad for him, I hope he can at least find some consolation in the large number of people who have apparently been turned into Kramnik fans due to the incidents of the past several days.

It's not a matter of blaming or criticizing. It's a question of whether or not this is a professional sport and if the participants are sportsmen with obligations or freelancers with moral stands. Obviously we have known the answer to that question for years. The chess world was ailing in this regard already when Kasparov and Short gave it a hard kick in 1993. Since then things have only gotten worse.

As we saw in Elista, thise FIDE has no professional authority and probably deserves none. I just don't think that packing up your pieces and heading home is the best reaction to everything. Ilyumzhinov, with this match, actually took a step in the right direction.

Wow. The commentary by Stern is awesome! We are not there. This is all second hand spin and rhetoric like the joke: "How can you tell if a politician is telling a lie? Lips moving." I am going to take his approach and look at this whole thing from here on out as a DRAMA for Entertainment. PsychoDrama, but Drama nontheless. And I, too, applaud Mig for this outstanding forum. One thing is for sure: noone can say that chess fans are not passionate about their love of the Royal Game. I am taking great comfort in that...agree to disagree...the things we do for love. Pro Chess Players Of The World Unite!!!

Mr "Give back my toilet or I will not play" invited Svidler and Bareev. He must be really scared that thorough investigation of his toilet will decrease his chances and wants Svidler and Bareev's help to compensate this?

2 Mark Howitt

Sadly for you, Bulgaria becomes EU member in 3 months. And I promise, in future elections to vote in favor of throwing England out of EU. Communist states havn't place in EU :))).

Something that nobody has pointed out regarding this toilet mess is the presence of Miguel Illescas in Kramnik´s team. Himself a computer expert and a man not especially remembered for his high moral standards here in Spain. The way he got rid of ajedrez21.com was shameful and dishonest. All for a couple of bucks...well maybe not just a couple, but that just shows his priorities

The way majority of ajedrez21-people I have met and played on ICC behave I can't really blame Illescas....Maybe he just got sick of some of you guys? I know I have.

If the match continues, I will not follow the games any more, and I swear I will never replay or watch a Topalov game anymore. BAH.

In retrospect I definitely shouldn't have signed the letter, because I know from personal experience with high level chess that Topalov is simply trying to gain an advantage, both psychologically and on the scoreboard, and cheating.