This Reuters report mentions Anatoly Karpov's attempt to visit Garry Kasparov in jail in Moscow, where Kasparov has been held since his arrest at an opposition protest on Saturday.
"A person is in trouble; of course I'm not indifferent to that," Karpov told Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty. "In Russia right now we have, what, four world chess champions? And of course the fate of any one of them is important to other chess players, both in Russia and abroad."
Karpov told the radio station he must have spent more time at the chessboard with Kasparov than with any other player, including a grueling match that went on for four months.
"Generally speaking, I don't share his political views, but that's something different," he said. "I didn't come here to support him politically."
Karpov was turned away just like everyone else who has attempted to visit Garry, who is scheduled to be released on Thursday. Members of the Russian parliament and of the "Public Chamber" (Karpov) are supposed to have the right to visit prisoners but both have been denied. A very kind gesture from Karpov, and an unexpected one I must say. The commentariat are checking his numbers and conclude he meant himself, Kramnik, Kasparov, and Smyslov. Spassky has been in France for a long time. Kramnik recently joined him, but he still represents Russia. A pity they turned him away. We're told Garry has a set with him and they could have played the strongest jailhouse chess game ever.
Well done Karpov. Kasparov would have appreciated it.
What kind of insane justice is this in Russia? Where are human rights people? Is this possibly allowed??
Duncan
A noble gesture on Karpov's part. Bravo.
It's nice to see these two slowly burying
the hatchet.
Is Garry composing the equivalent of the Letter from Birmingham Jail?
Karpov's attempted visit is really kind of brave, isn't it, considering who put Kasparov in jail.
>>What kind of insane justice is this in Russia? Where are human rights people? Is this possibly allowed??
Yeah, fight for human rights. Put everyone who is against you in Guantanamo.
playjunior, just because the US break human rights, doesn't mean that Russia should follow.
And don't you think the accused were accused of slightly different things!!
Duncan
Do not feel bad for Garry, boys.
He's currently in jail, teaching chess to Igor, his cellmate and new person in his life. It is reported that Igor is making very quick progress under Kaspy's expert guidance. Their very first game was declared a draw when Igor penetrated Garry's seventh rank with his bishop; having lost his right to castle, and with no prison guards around, Garry had no choice but to offer Igor a draw, which was quickly accepted by his excited opponent/special-friend.
>>What kind of insane justice is this in Russia? Where are human rights people? Is this possibly allowed??
>>
I'm not sure if the Geneva Convention covers visits from Anatoly Karpov. Oddly enough, nobody seems to have thought of that when they drew it up.
>>Yeah, fight for human rights. Put everyone who is against you in Guantanamo.
>>
Anybody who doesn't like Bush goes to Gitmo now? I thought it was a POW camp. I think somebody's having you on.
"Anybody who doesn't like Bush goes to Gitmo now? I thought it was a POW camp. I think somebody's having you on."
I believe the point is that under current US law, the President can imprison a US citizen and hold them without charge, without right to an attorney etc. The days the US could stand on the moral high ground and lecture others about human rights won't be back for a while.
Back to chess, I must say I was surprised by Karpov's visit. Good for him. For some reason it reminded me of when Tal was in hospital and his only visitor was Fischer. Seeing he was turned away in Russia, maybe Karpov could make a mercy dash to Iceland...
I don't think Karpov and Kasparov would need a chessboard as much as a chess clock. They can clearly play blindfold, but an argument of who used more time could turn into a prison riot.
Would it have been the strongest jailhouse game? I imagine fischer may have played some solitaire games in that Pasadena jailhous.
Duncan, there is no difference for what a person is accused. Until proven guilty, you cannot say he's guilty, even if you badly accuse him. E.g. if they would accuse Garry for terrorism, would it be OK for you if they held him lifetime without a court somewhere in Petrovka? No? Then why are you so much upset about this small particular case and not that huge general case?
"Then why are you so much upset about this small particular case and not that huge general case?" - because who cares about a huge number of prisoners without legal status who are being tortured in Guantanamo? Some of them may be evil doers, you know. But when a chess celebrity gets 5 days in prison, in what is probably more than anything a pre-election PR stunt to begin with, that is where we draw the line.
Yeah...whatever. I wonder whether you live in the same world I do. All of a sudden you are comparing Kasparov to those in Guantanamo. Now I know why justice can be so weird.
Of course, a person accused of genocide can be treated as one charged with demonstrating. Wow..what a world!
Kasparov jailed because fighting for democracy and fair rights for the russians??....Why he never fought for the democratic rights of the whole chess community?..I remeber him fighting for his self che$$ benefits,a whole irony of HOW LIFE IMITATES CHESS??.....This Jewish/Armenian born in Azeri land considers himself an authentic russian just because his primary language is russian...You deserve be poisoned Garrinka.
Ah, nice to see the ultra-nationalist, xenophobe contingent has paid a visit.
I don't think Putin is such a badass as Kasparov makes him out to be. If he was, he would've been put away for 20 years, like Nelson Mandela - not released on Thursday.
That Karpov - Kasparov game would surely have made it to twic. No computers, no team of seconds just great chess.
Good thing they didn't play though. Karpov could have won...
http://www.avlerchess.com/chess-misc/Lev_Khariton_Where_are_you_going_Garri_159527.html
http://bd.english.fom.ru/report/map/az/0-9/edomt0517_5/ed051718
Was it today my friend was telling about some Chinese Muslims who were kept in Guantanamo more than a year because they were accused for terrorism? Then it turned out they were sold to U.S. by some folks, and in fact they were refugees.
Now Duncan, was it OK, to keep them in jail for 1.5 years, because they were accused for terrorism?
I know this is making light of serious situation, but...
Mig, will you be working on Garry's next book, "I Was Tortured in the Moscow [Pasadena] Jailhouse!" Maybe a brief introduction by RJF would be appropriate.
This article by Khariton really deserves a look, no matter which side you are from. And it was written four years ago; looks relatively mild for today's standards.
"Do not feel bad for Garry, boys.
He's currently in jail, teaching chess to Igor, his cellmate and new person in his life. It is reported that Igor is making very quick progress under Kaspy's expert guidance. Their very first game was declared a draw when Igor penetrated Garry's seventh rank with his bishop; having lost his right to castle, and with no prison guards around, Garry had no choice but to offer Igor a draw, which was quickly accepted by his excited opponent/special-friend."
-Posted by: irv at November 28, 2007 09:02
Irv, I often agree with your posts, but this is nothing but a bad and tired old joke usually recited by 14 year olds.
Cynical Gripe wrote:
"Irv, I often agree with your posts, but this is nothing but a bad and tired old joke usually recited by 14 year olds."
Thanks, Cynical, for making me feel young again :-) (seriously, though, a man has a right to the occasional bad joke, don't you think?)
:-)
This guy's use of slangy expression is over the head of my Russian vocabulary, but it's a nice piece on the importance of Karpov's aborted visit to Kasparov.
http://ej.ru/?a=note&id=7602
Near the end: "Again, I say: Anatoly Karpov has done nothing heroic. It was the normal act of a normal person. But such actions are not safe, and they can have an impact. We just do not have enough good people and good deeds."
Nicely put. Karpov didn't have to come but he did. And it means more because he isn't one of Kasparov's allies.
As for Khariton, please. That piece, like most everything he writes longer than five words, is full of distortions and intentional omissions. Garry's attempts in the early 80's to use the system to his advantage and to find his own political protectors are hardly news, nor were they surprising at the time. And "his friends rarely attack him!" isn't exactly expose material. Bitter hack.
Ashish:
"Would it have been the strongest jailhouse game? I imagine fischer may have played some solitaire games in that Pasadena jailhous."
For such games to have been stronger, he'd have to have been better than 2741 in 1981. Not very likely, even when you try to factor in inflation.
"I believe the point is that under current US law, the President can imprison a US citizen and hold them without charge, without right to an attorney etc."
Sorry, you got it a bit wrong. Gitmo is only for battle field combatants, not US citizens and not foreign soldiers. And the Geneva Convention only applies to uniformed soldiers. In WWII non uniformed soldiers were spies, the Geneva convention did (and still does not) apply. Spies were often shot on site in WWII.
I suspect Karpov and Kasparov know that they are members of a dwindling and special fraterntiy (world champions, specificially from the long line of great Soviet/Russian masters), and in a weird way they would look out for each other in extreme situations.
... but look at some of the members of Kasparov's 'Other Russia' grouping ... it has been boycotted by mainstream liberal groups and includes such elements as Limonov's 'National Bolshevik Party'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bolshevik_Party
... many of those who condemn Kasparov's imprisonment would be clamouring for his arrest if he dared to repeatedly lead demonstrations featuring such forces in a Western European or North American country ..
I think Karpov just wanted to make sure Garry was really in jail and see it for himself. Those two dont like each other, you know he left with a smile on his face. (you know this is true)
I think a rather profound and excellent gesture on Karpov's part. There is the concern that Putin could have Kasparov killed. By trying to visit Kasparov, Karpov is helping to ensure that even more focus is placed on Kasparov's personal situation and hopefully that will count for something. Karpov demonstrated that at least in one way he is a gentleman.
Gorbachev is also supporting Putin: http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2007/11/i-would-vote-for-him-putin-and-i.html
"....We're told Garry has a set with him and they could have played the strongest jailhouse chess game ever...."
Don't forget Bobby Fischer. He did play with his jail partner when he was jailed at Japan few years ago.
C'mon! Fischer beating patzers in jail can't be compared with a match between the to K`s.
But what openings are suitable for prisonchess? They would clearly need some heavy explosives to try to break free. Maybe the King`s Gambit?
Frank,
I was not talking about Guantánamo Bay, the Geneva convention or several of the other things you say I was "a bit wrong" about. I was highlighting the fact that under current US law, this administration believes that the President can order the detention of a US citizen without charge, without access to counsel and for however long it deems necessary.
I find this disturbing.
Class act of Karpov
playjunior --> "Now Duncan, was it OK, to keep them in jail for 1.5 years, because they were accused for terrorism?"
Of course it was not OK. Do you want me to list all the things I don't like about the US...there is not enough disk space on Mig's server to list them.
What I cannot understand is why mention these things when we are talking about Kasparov's situation.
Duncan
Exactly, Duncan: I never understand why you guys from U.S. fight for democracy and human rights everywhere except in your own country.
Playjunior, Your assumption is wrong. I am not American. I'm European. Maltese to be exact.
Duncan
Babson:
"under current US law, this administration believes that the President can order the detention of a US citizen without charge, without access to counsel and for however long it deems necessary"
WHERE does it say that?
WHEN has that ever happened?
H L M - Isn't that what the Jose Padilla case was about?
The Administration has argued repeatedly in court, and continues to defend its position, that if the President chooses to designate an AMERICAN as an "enemy combatant" or some such thing, then the person so designated automatically loses many of the protections that the Constitution confers on U.S. citizens - including the right to challenge their designation.
My understanding is that the U.S. courts have rebuffed the Administration on this particular question when it's come up in court. But the fight isn't over, and Bush and his legal team haven't given up on thinking they'll eventually prevail before the Supreme Court.
In practice, I don't think they applied it to anyone but Padilla (who I think was in time released from military detention and allowed a lawyer - after a court said the Administration was acting illegally?). And they also have a clear policy of not putting Americans - even those considered enemies - in the Guantanamo Bay detention facility.
But the Administration's position is that in principle, they would have the legal right to put an American in Guantanamo Bay if they chose to, and he'd have no right to appeal his detention or otherwise access the U.S. court system.
Military detention of Padilla was the lone exception that proved the rule. There will not be a repeat.
The system is still capable of self-correction.
Meanwhile Padilla has had his day in court (Miami), he has been convicted by a jury of his peers, and he is awaiting sentencing.