Gata Kamsky Wins World Cup 2007

And so it begins... three matches to unite them all.

Well done Kamsky! A deserving winner.

Did Kamsky lose a single game during the World Cup? I don't think so. Quite an achievement!

Kamsky is not strong enough for Topalov.

Is that assuming Topa playing fair or not? Topa used to be weaker than Kamsky in the 1990s...

Congrats to Gata, who deserved the upcoming match by beating 7 players in a match.

Congrats to Vesko, who did the same by losing a match against Kramnik.

Congrats, Gata!

He's got to start training his bladder now: No bathroom breaks for several days at a time. This is his only chance to do well against Topo.

Learn to hold it Gata!

FYI:

Splitting the 128 World Cup Qualifiers into Octiles (groups of 16 based on Rating), here are the match (not game) winning percentages:

Top 16 = 42.5%
2nd 16 = 21.3%
3rd 16 = 18.1%
4th 16 = 8.7%
5th 16 = 4.7%
6th 16 = 2.4%
7th 16 = 2.4%
8th 16 = 0.0%

Conclusion: ELO does indeed matter.

SH said "Is that assuming Topa playing fair or not? Topa used to be weaker than Kamsky in the 1990s..."

The games between them two reveal the exact opposite:

Linares 1994: Kamsky - Topalov draw
Las Palmas 1994: Topalov - Kamsky draw
Dos Hermanas 1996: Kamsky - Topalov 0-1

And after Kamsky's return:

Corus 2006: Topalov - Kamsky 1-0
MTEL 2006: Topalov - Kamsky 1-0
MTEL 2006: Kamsky - Topalov 0-1
MTEL 2007: Topalov - Kamsky draw
MTEL 2007: Kamsky - Topalov draw

How more paranoid can someone like SH become?

Topalov is a cheater, so Kamsky will need his lawyer skills! Perhaps he is uniquely qualified...?

Hello people, where's the enthusiasm? An American just won the world cup!! Call the President, call the Mayor, call the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders! This young man is well on the way to the world title, quite impressively, and we're all acting like impartial spectators, analysts and commentators. Not just here but on every chess site I visit. This is the WORLD CUP people! One of our own just WON it!! Yes, he's a bit of an odd duck, but if you're passionate enough about chess to be reading or posting here, then you're probably an odd duck too. Let's hear some quacking out there! He's OUR BOY from Brooklyn. Whoo HOOOO!!!! GO KAMSKY!!!! YOU ROCK THE WORLD!!! Quack QUACK QUACK!!!

Today's trivial observation:

Kamsky was (as widely noted) the only person in the world cup to win a game from Shirov. Less widely noted, he was the only person to win a game against: Adly, Avrukh, Georgiev, Carlsen and (I believe?) Svidler. Pono was his only opponent who suffered any non-Kamsky losses.

I'd say that Shirov would have certainly not been strong enough for Topalov. Kamsky will have a chance.

I have been staring at World Champion mid section to reliably predict future performance.

Shirov is definitely back looking as svelte as the fiery young shirov.

Kramnik did not become World Champion until he shed off the extra pounds and the pudgy look of his youth.

Karpov started going downhill when the lean and mean Karpov of the 80's departed the stage.

Kasparov manage to leave on top by staying in top physical shape although he started losing some hair.

Topalov is lean and mean and as fiery as a young Tal wit a full set of hair.

But the future does not bode well for Kamsky and Anand looking at their growing mid section.

Fantastic achievement by Kamsky, & congrats; & almost as much to Shirov. It seemed to me, however, that in the final game Shirov became frustrated/tired/resigned to the prospect of a draw a bit too soon when he opted for 31...Qxa5. Can anyone shed light on whether either ...Re8 or ...Re7 instead (gotta stop that e-pawn!) might have given him any prospects?

Poor Shirov. Played fantastic chess over the course of this long tournament, only loses 1 game, and yet doesn't win the tournament. I know short formats are the way it is, but wouldn't a 12 game final between those two have been exciting? I'm sure it wouldn't have ended up 1-0 with 11 draws! Congrats to both players. It's really a shame one of them had to lose.

What is all this talk of Topa being so strong ? After Danilov scandal, he barely managed to win the last MTEL.

"Karpov started going downhill when the lean and mean Karpov of the 80's departed the stage."

Karpov is just as mean as ever--he just isn't lean. Of course, it is surmised that his Soviet "dietician" handlers gave him pep pills--especially during the long matches with Kortchnoi in 1978 and Kasparov in 1984-85. Not only did they give him energy, but they did a good job of burning off the fat.

Congratulations Gata! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!

encore! encore!

Shirov should have played 27. ..Qc7 first before exchanging his Bishop for the White rook on e5. He might have had a winning chance in this line.

Congratulations Gata.

Gata Kamsky is on his way to being the REAL World Chess Champion #15.

Go Gata Go

Well played Gata!

Now before the actual Topa-Kamsky match, all non-Americans and non-Bulgarians will enjoy a no" holds barred" sparring between the American and Bulgarian fans on all blogs!

:)

Amit

It is reasonable to still consider Topalov to be the favorite in match with Kamsky. Topalov has superior opening preparation, alhough Kamsky will have quite a few months to redress the imbalance.
As we saw in Game #2, Kamsky can unleash his own novelties, although perhaps avoiding the most topical of opening "debates".

Given Kamsky's (and Topalov's) recent form, I don't think that Topalov will have any advantage in the Middlegame. They both play the game with a tremendous will. Topalov has a will to win, while Kamsksy has a will to NOT lose. In this sense, Kamsky matches up well with Topalov, in that Topalov might be tempted to overpress, while Kamsky can exploit that with coolheaded defense.
I think that Kamsky's endgame skills, especially in the more technical positions, are perhaps a shade better than Topalov's.

One can cite Kamsky's losses to Topalov in 2006, but clearly Kamsky has in 2007 made much progress in regaining the form that he had in the mid 1990s. Framnly, the sample of games between them is not large enough to draw any meaningful conclusions with respect to the outcome of the putative match.

Anyway, it was great to see a fine result by Shirov, and congratulations to Kamsky for his success.

Congratuations to both Gata and Shirov for their excellent performances. They are both gems of the chess world, and it was sad to see either of them lose. Kamsky-Topalov should be very interesting. Now that Gata has some $$ in the bank (well, with FIDE you never know...), he can hire some trainers and get seriously prepared for his match with Topalov. I think with both players in peak form I'd give the edge to Topalov, but his play can be wildly erratic. And we know that Gata can be a devastating match player (ask Kramnik, Salov, and Short, for example). I hope the match will be at least 8 games long, and whatever the result it will be good for chess. We're finally getting back to a situation where only the top players are qualifying for the latter stages of the world championship cycle, and matches, not lotteries, are used to determine the winners. Ah, if only we could go back to the glorious days of the 24-game match, however...
Go chess!

Nice one Paul!

It is reasonable to still consider Topalov to be the favorite in match with Kamsky. Topalov has superior opening preparation, alhough Kamsky will have quite a few months to redress the imbalance.
As we saw in Game #2, Kamsky can unleash his own novelties, although perhaps avoiding the most topical of opening "debates".

Given Kamsky's (and Topalov's) recent form, I don't think that Topalov will have any advantage in the Middlegame. They both play the game with a tremendous will. Topalov has a will to win, while Kamsksy has a will to NOT lose. In this sense, Kamsky matches up well with Topalov, in that Topalov might be tempted to overpress, while Kamsky can exploit that with coolheaded defense.
I think that Kamsky's endgame skills, especially in the more technical positions, are perhaps a shade better than Topalov's.

One can cite Kamsky's losses to Topalov in 2006, but clearly Kamsky has in 2007 made much progress in regaining the form that he had in the mid 1990s. Framnly, the sample of games between them is not large enough to draw any meaningful conclusions with respect to the outcome of the putative match.

Anyway, it was great to see a fine result by Shirov, and congratulations to Kamsky for his success.

I'm with you RS, 8 games is too short, but better than nothing, I presume. Would be great to see FIDE go back to the 24 game traditional match event!! I'd really love to see Kramnik-Kamsky in a 24 Game Match for all the marbles.

Congratulations to Gata! Much like his playing style, he has shown extraordinary patience and determination as he has returned to form. Starting with ICC games; then the New York Masters; then some US Swisses; then finally elite events, during which he was initially outclassed; but once he was able to modernize his opening repertoire, his fundamental genius for the game propelled him to the top ... specifically a chance to challenge for the world championship by beating Top-alov. I suspect having a second (Sutovsky) during the World Cup, made a huge difference. At least he could get some sleep during the event!

4 cheers for Mr. Kamsky!

Gata, please hire a couple of ex CIA guys to watch for a no cheat match, and dont play in Sophia.

Congratulations Gata! My only regret is that the American media doesn't seem to care about this very much.

Yes Gata, NIX SOPHIA....and don't take any crap from that bully Danilov!! and to "g"...well you have to remember, do not know your age, but the media, didn't even start to talk about Fischer until he actually was seeded to play Spassky. Those games didn't hit the front page of every major newspaper, until the match got going....He went thru Taimanov 6-0...No Media, nothing, Larsen 6-0 stilll nothing, nada...beats Petrosian, and still nothing....only in May, June, of 1972 did the media, even start to write about him on the front pages. Then as the games got underway, they were plastered all over the newspapers!!.......even if Gata, were to beat Topa, and then play a match with Anand or Kramnik, I'd hate to guess how much coverage there will be. The media, I think got burned following Fischer over here......I'll be mildly surprised if we get coverage, for a Kramnik/Anand vs Kamsky Match...of course it goes without saying, if an American City, got the venue, that's a whole different kettle of fish!!...but Kirsan, Kramnik, or Anand, would NOT ALLOW that to happen, so persih that thought!

Can anybody tell me when was the last time a US citizen won an international chess tournament of this caliber?

Gata should bring Rustam to the match to beat up Danailov.

Thanks for the history lesson Bruce, and I really mean that. I was not alive in 1972, so I had no idea what kind of coverage he received.

~~~~: I think having Rustam keeping an eye on Danailov during the match would be good enough. Rustam certainly won't tolerate any shenanigans that Danailov would try to pull.

You're most welcome "g"....in fact now that I think back to that time, I had played chess only with kids around my neighborhood, it never really interested me all that much. In fact didn't even know if we were playing, using the right rules or not. Anyway, Game 1 Spassky/Fischer is splattered acroos our home town newspaper, and lo and behold, I see all these written moves!!!well i had no idea one could "record" a game and actually play it back!!!!...I was so impressed and astonished, that I could go over the game move by move!!!.....so sorry for the long story, but its these things us patzers here remember about our first real introduction to chess. So when these folks (not meaning you of course) say nasty things about Bobby, like beating a dead horse when he's down, I get defensive and have to show support. I'm sure I'm not only speaking for me, but many, many others, are involvement with chess would be ZILCH, a big fat ZERO, had it not been for Bobby.

David Parker, Probably Naka at 'Casino de barcelona"??...2007, he took First place...good question, indeed, let me see what else I can dig up.

Well Yasser won the World Junior Championship 1979, Browne Wijk aan Zee 1980, Christiansen (with Karpov) Linares 1981...but I'm sure there are a few more from the 90's, there would have to be?....and of course, Naka, Browne, and Yasser although US citizens, were born elsewhere. Keep checking, others here will set the record straight, I'm sure!:-)

mig, you will never manage to fix the template problem :)
the above is just a joke, but the problem is appearing once and again every week...
just in time, the blog and the content are nice, such a detail would never take me out of here anyway :)

To "g" yes Rustam to foil Danialov!!!;-).......is he still close to Gata?..one never hears to much about him anymore, but having Rustam to ward off Danialov could be interesting!!.....would like to hear Short's comments on the upcoming match!;-)

>..Shirov. Played fantastic chess over the course of this long tournament, only loses 1 game, and yet doesn't win the tournament...>

He was in a great form, the best in the last few years.. but Gata too seemed to have "returned".

maybe Garry will do the same ? After this "prison experience" brush with reality he will return to his senses and return to chess more "angrier than ever".

Topalov is not unbeatable, Kamsky has a shot. Funnt thing about the commentary on Kamsky's games througout world cup, all the anouncers kept critisizing his moves during live commentary then when the games were over, "great game by Kamsky". Maybe he justs sees more and understands more about chess than any of us will ever and we should be thankful to watch him play. It is easy to critisize but hard to create. Good luck Gata.

Today Topalov ordered a Kamsky special edition of Rybka exclusively from the programmers ....

A great historical day for US Chess! In a short 8-game match, it will be difficult for Topalov to recover from his usual early -2 score.

>>> He's OUR BOY from Brooklyn. Whoo HOOOO!!!! GO KAMSKY!!!! YOU ROCK THE WORLD!!! Quack QUACK QUACK!!!

That rocked Durango!
And in the same spirit: Kamsky will indeed be a sitting duck in Sofia.
Kamsky should hire good ol' Bobby to negotiate the conditions!
!!!

Bravo Gata!

I think he'll be well prepared for Topalov. And not just for the chess aspect, but for off-the-board shenanigans. Recall his experience in Elista '96 vs. Karpov, where adjourned games were mysteriously allowed at the last minute, a significant edge for Karpov...And I'm sure Kamsky will ratchet up his physical fitness if need be; his '90s incarnation was a serious jogger.

"Is that assuming Topa playing fair or not? Topa used to be weaker than Kamsky in the 1990s..."

Nonsense. Topalov was rated ahead of Kamsky when he left for medical school.

He was rated 2745 in July 1996.

1 Kasparov, Gary... RUS 2785 18

2 Karpov, Anatoly................... RUS 2775 12

3 Kramnik, Vladimir................. RUS 2765 22

4 Topalov, Veselin.................. BUL 2750 40

5 Kamsky, Gata... USA 2745 20

http://chess.eusa.ed.ac.uk/Chess/Trivia/AlltimeList.html
Kamsky has a +0 -4 classic record against Topalov

Just because Kamsky has no wins against Topa in 4 games, do not count him out. Fischer had no wins against Spassky in 5 games, prior to their match. Although he had 2 draws.

4 games, I think, Bruce.

"And so it begins... three matches to unite them all.

Posted by: Rookmaster at December 16, 2007 09:08 "

Don't see why there should be 3 matches. Should be only one match between the current world champion - Anand and the duly qualified challenger Kamsky .

Anyone who thinks for a moment what happened 10-15 years ago between these two players is of any real significance now would appear to have some issues with objectivity.

Root for your player if you like, but don't attempt to use flawed logic and incredibly weak statistics to fuel your position. It's a slippery slope of rhetoric that really won't get you anywhere except making rationalizations if the outcome doesn't end in your favor.

Both players are very different people now. The chess will tell the tale and my position would be the odds are fairly equal. Kamsky is clearly peaked now, so we'll see if he can maintain/return to that level next year. Timing is key for matches, as I'm sure everyone will agree.

Pros:
Topalov - confidence, opening preparation, recent and long term experience at this level, determination
Kamsky - determination, historical experience in high level matches, nerves (imagine Ivanchuk with Kamsky's nerves?! - frightening)

The cons for both are somewhat nebulous to me. As a great man once said: this is why we play the games.

I am really disappointed how poorly the PR and media relations have once again been handled. Very little stuff on the official site. Interviews started to appear only at the Final, and even now we are still waiting for a translation of the final press conference 12+ hours after it has finished! If someone wanted it for tomorrow's paper it's late now. The website is unattractive, the webcam was always down, the relay was full of errors when there were more games and so on.

What is Kok doing exactly, is he involved in this? The marketing side seems to still suck. I'm not expecting live TV or any of that pipe dream, but just normal functions would do. Thoughts of the players, bit of background info, enough bandwidth for the webcam to work, reliable relay of games, funny and informative anecdotes. I'm sure a team of 2 skilled people could handle this when working full time over the course of the event. Many people have better personal websites and more informative blogs than what the organizers achieved here. Many players left the tournament without a word being heard of them. I would have also liked to have read the opinions on chess, their careers etc. of many of the "lesser players" , the chinese etc. Bit of chess culture.

It's just depressing these days. And none of this would cost too much, or require a lot. Just a change in attitude and approach and a bit of positivity and energetic thinking.

Let's sort the mess out.

The Spassky-Fischer match in 1972 wasn't just plastered over the newspapers. I still recall at least one of the three major TV networks in the US included brief mention of the day's developments in the evening news. Network TV, for God's sake!! Not just cable!! When's the last time that happened in the U.S.?

Congrats to Kamsky for winning over Shirov. Thumbs up to Shirov for losing only 1 game; apparently that 1 game was the deciding game.

Okay, I just spent a while hunting the template bug. Since it appears randomly I never know if I fixed it or not. But the homepage is now totally XHTML valid and I also cleaned out a few unnecessary Movable Type tags leftover from the old 3.x installation. It's been popping up on me a half-dozen times a day (I just re-publish the main index template and it's fine) so if it's working fine now I should notice. But still let me know if you get the bug. Basically it's one of two things. The first post (above the "buy something" banner) not appearing. Or only the first post and banner appearing. I suppose it's possible for only the banner to appear with no posts at all but I haven't seen that version yet. If it's still happening at this point it's probably a database issue, which could be a mess. If I find a way and the time I'd be happy to move this entire thing over to a Wordpress install. I've been running that at www.theotherrussia.org with fewer issues. Just redesigned it completely. Had some weird javascript plugin conflicts but overall it's been better.

So in 1996:
#1 was Kasparov, Gary... RUS 2785 18
and a decade later #3 is Kramnik with exactly the same rating... (as per Oct 2007 list)

interesting... whatever happened to rating inflation?

Knallo, No, there were 5 played I believe. 1960-MarDel Plata, 1966-Santa Monica (2Games), 1966-Havana, and 1970-Siegen...he lost 3 games when having black, and drew 2 games when he had white.

The inflation is visible lower down when you have 22 players over 2700 where we used only only see Kasparov and Karpov. No doubt players are better now than 20 years ago overall, but there aren't 25 players in the world better than Kasparov and Karpov were in 1985.

It's still hard to spike up over 2800, which mostly shows how far ahead of the pack Kasparov and Karpov were for so long. There's more parity now. But the pack is rising together, as you'd expect. In another 10 years we'll have 10 players over 2800, half of them the same guys as today. Dropping the top player out competition was probably also a minor factor in slowing inflation at the very top over the last few years. Instead of a 2800 in your supertournament you have a 2720.

"So in 1996:
#1 was Kasparov, Gary... RUS 2785 18
and a decade later #3 is Kramnik with exactly the same rating... (as per Oct 2007 list)

interesting... whatever happened to rating inflation?"

In 1971, Fischer's rating was also 2785. This was right after he won 20 consecutive games. Are you also willing to claim that there is no effect of "rating inflation" between 1971 and the present day?

One or two freakishly good players (Fischer and Kasparov) is hardly enough to draw meaningful conclusions. Instead, compare the average rating of the Top 10, Top 20, Top 50, Top 100, etc., between the mid 1990s and today.

Ellrond: Today Topalov ordered a Kamsky special edition of Rybka exclusively from the programmers ....

Ha, ha, ha... So funny, coming from a dumb ass.

D.

DOug: In 1971, Fischer's rating was also 2785. This was right after he won 20 consecutive games. Are you also willing to claim that there is no effect of "rating inflation" between 1971 and the present day?

Clearly the rating inflation is a fact. It can easily be demonstrated
by taking the average rating of the Top 10/100 players back then and
now. I have to look at the numbers first, but still I feel that both
kasparov and Karpov were far above their peers back then, a situation
that we do not have today, as it's a pretty dense pack at the top.

D.

BTW, Kamsky has a long record of good relations with Topalov and Danailov. They assisted Kamsky in the old days of his match with Karpov. In the recent years Danailov has promoted Kamsky actively by inviting him in Sofia, stating support for him in interviews during the times when other organizers were mistrustful for his form and abilities after the comback, etc.
I am sure Danailov will use his good relations with both players to assure lucrative conditions for the upcoming match for all three parties (Kamski, Danailov, Topalov). I will not be surprised even if they prearange some quarrel prior to the match in order to attract more media attention and cash for the players.

I have never liked Kamsky...probably since his match against Short when his father messed it up.

But I surely no longer like Topalov because of his off board tactics.

So Gata...good luck on your match. Wish you all the luck.

Duncan

Kamsky winning the World Cup is nice but, you know, champions come and go...

What is important in historical sense is that yesterday Shirov made a huge revolutionary contribution to the development of style and fashion by inventing a new way to tie a necktie! (see pictures from the yesterday's press conference at chessbase.com) :))

Kamsky-Topalov is the most interesting matchup in a very long time. Shirov may be a firebrand but Kamsky is a fighter with prudence. I didn't like Kamsky's play in his earlier days because it was too weird, too messy but now he is much more mature.

Kamsky has always been strong in the middlegame. Topalov is great in the opening. We'll see lots of blood.

I take issue with bobo's comment of 04:51. Names like Kamsky or Topalov need no introduction. Sparks will fly just on their chess alone. There is no need for fixes.

I also take issue with the large number of unfair disparaging comments directed at Topalov and Kamsky. Kamsky is no longer under the control of his father. Toiletgate is history. Kamsky has never displayed unsportsmanlike conduct. Topalov has always showed up to play, regardless of the conditions, and when he lost a few games and a few tournaments earlier in the year, he did not invent 101 excuses.

Still, it may be good publicity to fan a firestorm: which is worse, without naming names, cheating at agreements or cheating with computers?

"Knallo, No, there were 5 played I believe. 1960-MarDel Plata, 1966-Santa Monica (2Games), 1966-Havana, and 1970-Siegen...he lost 3 games when having black, and drew 2 games when he had white."

Right you are, Bruce! I mistakenly counted Santa Monica as one game. Thanks for the correction.

So does anyone have any idea when these two matches (Kramnik-Anand and Kamsky-Topalov) will actually happen? I'm always skeptical until the clocks are started.

"I also take issue with the large number of unfair disparaging comments directed at Topalov and Kamsky. Kamsky is no longer under the control of his father. Toiletgate is history."

Toiletgate may be history, but it is quite RECENT history. I also think it is much nastier than anything Rustam Kamsky may have done, and the main perpetrator (Danailov) is still on the scene. Rustam Kamsky's involvement is, I think, far enough in the past to be safely ignored.

"So does anyone have any idea when these two matches (Kramnik-Anand and Kamsky-Topalov) will actually happen? I'm always skeptical until the clocks are started."

It's not scheduled yet, and you've every right to be skeptical, given FIDE's track record.

"I also take issue with the large number of unfair disparaging comments directed at Topalov..."

Agreed. Why disparage Topalov (and Danailov) unfairly when there are so many things that they are justifiably and appropriately disparged for?

Congrats to Alexei Shirov! Good job!

It gets so boring to read the same old and tired comments about Topalov/Sofia/Bulgaria. Kamsky did play chess in Sofia this year, I have not heard him complain about the conditions there. Time to move on people, Danailovs antics are no news and no fun.

It seems like they should have (warning: this might be rational and so I understand why tehy didn't do it) set the conditions for the matches before the players were decided. Pick a country with nobody participating in the Mexico City and Khanty-Mansisk tournaments--maybe Japan? Canada? Italy? I'm just guessing here--and say that the match will be held in Rome or wherever and will feature Topalov and the winner of Khanty-Mansisk at such-and-such time control for so many games and this many bathrooms, etc. Then if you don't want to play under those conditions, you don't play in the tournament. But now that the playeres are decided, I imagine there will be all sorts of negotiations between them, when the whole point of something like FIDE is to prescribe and enforce objectively fair conditions for the sport. It's not like if you get to the Super Bowl you get to say "wait, wait, I don't want to play in Miami, I want to play in Dallas, and the cheerleaders have to stand over here, and if it goes to overtime we get the ball first."

Congrats to Kamsky!! Great Job!

Pull a Morphy. Show those Europeans that lawyer chess players aren't to be taken lightly.

Is it me, or has chess turned into a studio sport? Something has got to be done to make it interesting to actually want to go to the games. Of course, this is what you get when you hold a chess tournament in the middle of Siberia.

Howard,

Her name was Lola
She was a showgirl
with yellow feathers in her hair,
a chess board on her derriere,

She would merengue and do the cha-cha!

Go Gata Go! What an achievement!

At my job I work with adult learners, people who for one reason or another could not go to college right after high school, but are only now working on their bachelors degree. Many of them are in their 30s.

Gata is like that! Dropped out of the chess world for a while, and now is back in black, baby! What an inspiration.

It's just hilarious to see Kamsky and Shirov all dressed up in ties, looking professional, with nobody there to witness. Of course, there are cameras and pictures on ChessBase, and YouTube video, etc., but seriously...this? Why doesn't FIDE do what the US Chess League does: Get an arbiter to accompany the player while he plays the game, and then play the games online? Who the F are we fooling? Nobody wants to go to Siberia. When Kamsky plays Topolov, which will be the semi-finals of the WC, you'd get hundreds of spectators if the games were played by Kamsky somewhere in the NY metro area. Let Topolov play in Bulgaria. Play over the ICC the way the USCL does it. Make chess a 21st century sport instead of a studio sport. Get a clue, FIDE. (Give Topolov's notorious reputation, perhaps I should not be so idealistic. How much would it cost to pay off an arbiter?)

my own chess games at the park attract WAY more spectators. are there even any chess fans in the middle of siberia?

Or just have it in a real frickin city, not in Siberia or some corrupt trashcanistan Russian republic. You put these games in a hotel ballroom in any major city and put up posters saying whats going on; you'll have people come in and watch. You can sell books in the lobby, folks will play skittles games, bring in a hot-dog cart or two, maybe have some local GMs give a simul or something--make it a whole chess fair or something and you might actually see some money spent--in NYC this couldn't work? In London nobody would care? People wouldn't bring their kids to see the champ? I don't believe it. It's all about marketing and the overall experience, and an empty auditorium in the middle of nowhere doesn't help. Also I want no more dance troupes or free camels or locals dressed up like chess pieces. And I imagine the players wouldn't mind some better venues too.

I'd have rather seen Aronian-Gelfand than Shirov-Kamsky.

Why exactly are all these events being held in Khanty-Mansiysk anyway?

(They also hosted the 2005 World Chess Cup and will be hosting the 38th Chess Olympiad in 2010.)

Because that's where the King's got his castle.

You'll all be pleased to here then that Siberia will host the 2009 World Cup and the 2010 Olympiad

When the 1999 WC was held in Las Vegas, same format as the 2007 World Cup (HUGE knockout), there were a SIMILAR number of spectators! My brother went to watch for 1-2 days, and said there were less than 15 spectators

All HUGE chess events like this should be held in countries that REALLY appreciate chess, like Holland, where there would be HUNDREDS of spectators every day.

Ben Finegold

The chess world could not lose on this one. Either winner would be a dream matchup. Either Topalov-Kamsky or Topalov-Shirov would be great battles!

The former matchup would be likened to a wonderful mixed martial arts match of striker vs. grappler while the later would have been a standup battle of striker vs. striker. Either way, we're in for a treat.

Furthermore, the chess world will win again... unless the finalists are Kramnik and Kamsky. Any other combination would be intriguing. Anand-Topalov would be interesting as would Anand-Kamsky. Of course Kramnik-Topalov speaks for itself.

"Why exactly are all these events being held in Khanty-Mansiysk anyway?

(They also hosted the 2005 World Chess Cup and will be hosting the 38th Chess Olympiad in 2010.)"

Money. Apparently, the leaders of Khanty-Mansiysk is willing to pay for the sponsorship and organization of these large scale chess events. They seem to have the accomodations, even though it is not a big place for Conventions or tourism, presumeably.

It is a bit strange, since that means that "Chess City" in Elista is lying fallow.

"It's just hilarious to see Kamsky and Shirov all dressed up in ties, looking professional, with nobody there to witness. Of course, there are cameras and pictures on ChessBase, and YouTube video, etc., but seriously...this?"

Actually, (not that I much care, since I don't buy into the suit and tie image for chess), Kamsky doesn't look like the part of a professional, with his somewhat garish short-sleeve shirt, and poor color coordination.

One might have though that the attendance might have been better. After all, it is near the Winter Season in Siberia. Chess may not be the most exciting spectator sport, but one would think that it would be the most exciting thing going on in Khanty-Mansiysk.

It is ironic that Shirov still complained about the noise, as some of the "observers" were audibly kibitzing.

Press-conference after the game 3

Q: You're the only players left and you have to play in a big hall, is this emptiness stressful or intimidating for you?

Shirov: No, I don't have this feeling, because those few observers that watch the game have a habit of commenting it too loudly. Yesterday I've heard them suggesting some moves. Luckily, there was no such thing today.

Kamsky: The conditions for both players are equal. Whether people are talking or not we have to play on.

S: I'm not trying to find an excurse for my loss or something, it's just a fact.

Regarding Feingold's comment, tournaments (especially KOs) are often terrible at generating the desired interest. In other sports, even pro wrestling, the thing gets people to watch is: conflict, and its resolution. It's not easy to get involved with spectating when the guys you watched today are easily gone tomorrow. The rapid turnaround from one round to the next probably does not help - with the playoff system in football, there is a building of tension (a hype-week), etc. The closest thing to the chess system might be tennis, but even there it has been the classic (long-term) duels between top players that have generated the most interest. Would Wimbledon be of as much interest if something kinda like a random 4 of the top 16 made the semis? (Also, there is a whole Grand Slam rather than one WC.) Bring back the long matches, I say. Back in the late 80s, I can remember Karpov-Hjartarson, Speelman-Short, etc.---and all just to pick a Candidate! And it generated much more interest to boot. KOs might be good for blitz chess, but I don't think they are good for other forms.

The Veterans versus Juniors match in the centre of Amsterdam this year attracted the proverbial two men and a dog as spectators (plus the sponsor who had his own special chair). This despite having top commentators like Sosonko.
Curiously, the Veterans versus Juniors Euwe tournament in the smaller Dutch town of Arnhem at the same time enjoyed much bigger crowds. Go figure.

Ben finegold makes an excellent point that should be obvious. You dont have rap concerts in Conneticut. Let those who appreciate these great players be allowed to watch them live. Just another aspect of how the ruling body of chess ignores its fans, and usually its best players.

p.s. You cannot expect people to sit for hours without talking or making noise. Players should where soundproof earplugs or the like and the paying customers should be served food and be able to play skittles in the audience. Something like that may make chess a more spectator sport. I know if I could watch and play and enjoy a good meal it would be better than a dinner show imho.

Iforgotmyusername's post further up this thread regarding strength of Topalov vs Kamsky in the 1990's seems rather misleading to me.

It is hardly fair to quote only the July 1996 rating. In fact, Kamsky was above Topalov in most of the rating lists prior to this. And only one of Topalov's four wins over Kamsky was in the 1990's.
Actually, it is not easy to compare Topalov and Kamsky directly in the 1990's because Topalov only came into serious prominence via his 'Super' year of 1996, and this was at a time when Kamsky was already in a slight decline, perhaps due to having been stuffed around so much by FIDE regarding the Karpov match.

Personally, I think that if Kamsky has recovered his 1990's form, then Topalov is in for one hell of a match.

A bit off-topic I suppose, but for those that may be thinking of using the ratings on this chess.eusa site, there are some errors:

(1) In the 1970 list, Keres' rating is 2600, not 2660.
The list itself is actually an average over 1966-1969; and the January 1971 list is an average over 1968-1970.

(2) In the January 1975 list, Korchnoi's rating is 2665, not 2655.

(3) The "July 1981" list is in fact January 1981. The real July 1981 list is not there at all and is:
Karpov 2720
Korchnoi 2695
Hubner 2640
Kasparov 2630
Spassky 2630
Timman 2630
Portisch 2620
etc.

(4) In the January 1982 list, Karpov's rating is 2720, not 2700.

I find it extraordinary that nowhere on the Internet, whether the FIDE site or anywhere else, does there seem to be a Top 100 list going back to when FIDE Ratings started.
Another example of how badly we are served by FIDE.

It gets so boring to read the same old and tired comments about Topalov/Sofia/Bulgaria. Kamsky did play chess in Sofia this year, I have not heard him complain about the conditions there. Time to move on people, Danailovs antics are no news and no fun.

http://videosearchtool.info

Gata's performance was tremendous - many kudos, and much luck to you for the future, Gata!

Seeing the empty theater was sad. Ben Finegold's retelling of his brother's recollection from Las Vegas - even sadder.

But I was among the crowds at the Hudson Theater in NYC in 1990 when Kasparov played Karpov, and at the Intel-PCA Rapids events at the Javits Center and in lower Manhatten in the mid-90s.

And I was one of the organizers for the US Open in 1983, when over two hundred people packed the room during the last round, and another two-hundred-plus filled the commentary room, as Korchnoi and Christiansen took first ahead of Seirawan, Fedorowicz, and 800+ others.

American chess players and fans can be an appreciative audience, but it takes a lot of resources to present events well enough to fill a hall. We seem to lack the combination of people and money that it takes nowadays, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

"p.s. You cannot expect people to sit for hours without talking or making noise. Players should where soundproof earplugs or the like and the paying customers should be served food and be able to play skittles in the audience. Something like that may make chess a more spectator sport. I know if I could watch and play and enjoy a good meal it would be better than a dinner show imho."

Perhaps Fischer's idea in 1992 during his rematch with Spassky of building a (soundproof?) glass wall between the players and the spectators was not such a bad idea after all.

Come on Ben,

Las Vegas was just a poor venue for a Chess Tournament. People are too busy gambling to watch Chess.
I am sure you'd get a huge turnout if the Topalov vs Kamsky match takes place in Manhattan.
All the Kasparov vs Karpov matches from the World Championship to the X3D match were packed event.

"Play over the ICC the way the USCL does it. Make chess a 21st century sport instead of a studio sport. Get a clue, FIDE. (Give Topolov's notorious reputation, perhaps I should not be so idealistic. How much would it cost to pay off an arbiter?)"

Good points, Howard, although I'd also agree with Topalov's paranoia quotient it might be a bit unrealistic to do this match online. Still, do it anyway...have a Bulgarian squad in NY and an American squad in Bulgaria watching. I suspect you could do a match like this and still attract spectators too (or at least as many as you'd attract if the two players were in the same room :-)

In his current form Kamsky's strength would be equal to that of Topalov's. [Since his return, the games that Kamsky lost were more due to blunders that happen due to lack of match practice]. While couting other factors like, mental stability, fitness (he is a trained boxer) and a strong will, he is as good as any other player. [His ace would be the presence of his father, Rustam Kamsky, who would naturally force Topa team to be more restrained, given his unpredictable nature and training as a boxer!]

Amit

"In his current form Kamsky's strength would be equal to that of Topalov's."

One must always be cautious about conclusions derived from a single event. Remember, Khalifman, Ponomariov and Kasimzhanov are all past winners of the identical event.

"Since his return, the games that Kamsky lost were more due to blunders that happen due to lack of match practice."

Here again, one must be careful about such statements. It is not as if all of those blunders came in won positions.

I'll be rooting for Kamsky as much as anyone, but we need more evidence before we can say that he really is playing like a top-5 player again. We are only six months removed from the candidates matches, in which Gelfand defeated Kamsky with relative ease.

Hi there james marcus,

""http://videosearchtool.info""

I bet you are trying to be creative. Well, I am not. So, you'll just have to spell it out to me.

Some comments are really worth laughing a bit. "An american has won the world cup". Wow. Quite an achievement for an american. Against... a spanish? Yeah, it seems.

Gata Kamsky did won against Alexei Shirov. So you can call them spanish, americans, martians, but they are still guys from USSR with slavian faces, russian as first language and russian culture. When they are with their closest friends they speak russian with them.

India may be proud of Anand, and USA of Fischer. But being proud of Kamsky as an american today is a rather ridiculous and misplaced way to display your national pride. If you may ever find "good" ways to do it...

"Some comments are really worth laughing a bit."

Ruslan,

And yours is one of them. It wasn't that long ago that you called yourself a "citizen of the world." How does that "display your national pride?" No, Gata is a citizen of the United States and yes he speaks Russian as well as English. I think it's great that a person can be bi-lingual, especially in the United States. =8-) I'm happy to root for Gata as an American chessplayer. This is the country that he now represents, and since your the one that made this nationalistic...deal with it frenchmen.

Kamsky has been living here for what some 20 years? Over 50% of his life here? If he's lived here for more than 50% then he's had more experience being American than Russian. Granted if someone has just gotten citizenship then they don't have much experience being American, although they're still American. But for Kamsky that doesn't even apply as he's been here for awhile (if Wikipedia is correct). But in sports no one cares where you're from so long as you represent the local team the locals will support you, as Houstonians support Yao Ming and Tennesseans support Vince Young who is a Houston native. Vince doesn't even make his home in Tennessee. Maybe chess being an individual support is different, but it really doesn't apply to Kamsky who's spent most of his life here. And what's more American than being a lawyer? Our country has too much of them.

we are all americans...none of of were born here excepot ther indians who we decimted, so Kamsky is an Anmeerican as meuch as any of you hyprocrical bastartardos

The Indians were decimated by smallpox and malaria.

The Indians killed thousand of civilian White men, women, and children. White people just fought back.

Of all the stupid, imbecilic, moronic, dumb, ignorant, idiotic, foolish, brainless, dimwitted, know nothing comments ever posted to this blog, yours Leroidavid takes the cake. Congratulations, stay tuned to find out what you’ve won….

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