It's amusing that the term "fish," which is frequently used to refer to weak chessplayers at least in American English ("bunny" is also good in the UK), has become a popular naming theme for top chess programs. Rybka means "little fish" in Czech and Polish, but the engine by Vasik Rajlich has been the big dog in computer chess for a long time now. (Five years being a very long time for dominance in just about any tech field, barring monopolistic practices.) For a decade, since the obsolescence of DOS programs, the programs Fritz, Junior, and Shredder mostly took turns as primus inter pares. Since 2005, with a few blips, Rybka as been more like Optimus Prime.
Lately, however, the computer chess message boards where a few dozen hardcore multicore ultra-geeks generate enough posts daily to utilize the bandwidth of a midsize European country, have been abuzz with fresh names and new competition. And, of course, flying accusations. (Okay, maybe there are more than a few dozen of them, but sometimes it does feel that way. I'm not sure of Permanent Brain is still holding court in the Ninja boards, but his posts on these things are always informative.) Ever heard of IPPOLIT? Robbolito? Firebird? This is a series of engines, all very strong and apparently with a common source. The controversy is over whether or not they are clones of Rybka based on reversed engineering Rajlich's code, which is what he seems to be saying. This is not rare, but it can be hard to prove. More to the point, proving it can force you to reveal things about your code you're rather not reveal. I see ChessVibes covered this a few weeks ago.
How about Stockfish? This one seems to be free of the accusations because it's an open source program that freely admits its origins in the strong and popular open source engine Glaurung. Whatever the Stockfish folks did, it appears to have put the program into the strength category of Rybka, at least in head-to-head play.
(Which, not to get too deep into the weeds, can be close to irrelevant for the purposes you may have for your chess engine, such as analyzing GM games or your own. That is, if hyper-tactical program A scores 53% against the more positionally adept B in blitz, it's still likely a human is getting a lot more useful information from B. But if you just want to quickly blunder-check some games or your analysis before posting it your blog, the quick tactician might be better for you. They are all so strong it's ridiculous to worry about which one beats the other unless you are specifically interested in which one beats the other.)
Most importantly, Stockfish is free. It's a UCI engine that requires an interface. I believe there are licensing issues that prevent open source programs from using the Nalimov tablebases, which is a shame for those of us who mostly use engines for GM game analysis. There's a long and informative interview with the Stockfish team here. This is just the latest episode in free programs pushing the top commercial engines on the rating lists. Fruit and Toga did it a few years ago before Rybka came in and shoved everything else out of the limelight.
This is why -- along the the more-true-every-year parenthetical above -- I have always said interface and features are what matter, and why ChessBase doesn't lose any sleep about the newest programs to climb the rating lists. Ever since engines got to the super-GM level my interest has been about how they could be made more useful, not just stronger. For the engine this means playing and evaluating in a way that can help a human improve, and Rybka was a step in this direction. For the interface it means features that do that, as well as providing entertainment value and a better overall user experience. ChessBase was teased in the aforementioned ultra-geek community when they basically stated this and stopped worrying about their flagship engine Fritz winning computer chess events, or even playing in them. Maybe there were a few sour grapes in there, and ChessBase still caters to different audiences with Rybka and others. But when there are free engines that can demolish any human on a laptop it's time to stop working so hard on the motor and focus on the stereo system and comfier seats. Few care if you can drive 200 mph instead of 170 and even fewer should care.
Chess professionals might, but they and other people like me who rely on chess tools constantly are a tiny part of the market. And I admit that even I haven't bothered to upgrade my own software in quite a while because I stopped getting free stuff and I didn't see any must-have features that would make my work any easier. (I feel much the same about about Adobe CS4.) That isn't to say they haven't added a lot of things that are great for people with other needs, of course.
Btw, has anyone implemented by brilliant idea for a visualization training mode yet? I suggested this probably five years ago, to have a mode in which the position on the board lags behind the actual game position by a variable number of moves. It's basically a handicap blindfold game. You have to visualize x number of moves from the notation all the time. You could keep increasing the gap until you were playing the entire game blindfold. You could even have different handicaps for different players online as a variant. A 2000 could play online with a six move visualization handicap against a 1600 with a three move handicap. It would be easy to implement and it would be fantastic exercise. Move entry could be on a blank separate or overlay board.
Sad to say that "Cloud" computing is the future of chess analysis. I don't like the idea of renting "time" from some monolithic company (would prefer to own my own system), but no individual will be able to afford the monstrously powerful systems that companies will put together and rent time on. And engines will be taylored to run on those systems, so most individuals will be left far, far behind in terms of strength of analysis.
Brave new world...
Interesting idea with the visualisation training mode. I've been learning blindfold recently, and I worked towards it gradually starting with 'semi-blindfold' (blank tiles to represent all pieces and pawns), before gradually removing them (e.g. playing a game where I could only see the pawns and not any pieces). Any one of those stages is a different kind of visualisation handicap to the one you suggested.
It's probably too early to say whether these exercises have improved my playing ability however - my 5 0 peak rating on ICC has gained 60 points since I started a few weeks back, but it's still very modest and may just be chance.
http://myopic-chess.blogspot.com/2010/04/visualisation.html is a recent post I made on my experience of visualising a position in blindfold.
Apparently Russians use the word "deer" instead of fish.
Can anyone confirm? It sounds very strange in English!
I've seen that sort of idea mentioned before for training visualization - I can't remember where exactly, though. The person was recommending playing games from a book on a set, but keeping the position on the set lagged N moves behind the "current move" you were looking at. It sounded promising.
Good different dirt post!
Haven't tried that but semi blind fold sounds harder than the full blind fold..
Another option is just to show the pawns. I think that would really help at first. With the pawn structure visible, the piece placement is very simple.
Rabbit more so than bunny. Fish and patzer also in high use.
There are some other, highly amusing terms of derision, which I won't tell you about because in the last five years or so Americans have begun to appropriate our best loved insults and in return offer free use of monstrosities like 'deplane' or 'impactful'.
I got firebird when it came out, but it seemed to make my computer a bit sluggish. I even set up a rybka v firebird engine match (no tbs) but aborted it as after quite a few games it looked like 50/50 would be the result.
Sticking the UCI protocol into chessbase progs was a great idea for them. I hope Meyer-Kahlen and Huber got something for it.
Lots of good and bad points here. Migster is quite wrong that rating lists dont matter they matter tremendously to chess base and the Rybka team and of course miggy omitted the key point that has generated all the controversy. Chess base and the rating list authorities have banned Firebird Ribbolitto and Ippiloto from playing on playchess or being rated - thats the whole point. Quite a nasty and unpleasant response. Of course migloid trots out the usual nonsense that you can reverse engineer a commercial program and copy its code - it doesnt work like that. You cant unless its open source.
There is also the usual hypocritical response of Rajlich who was himself accused of ripping off the code for Rybka in the first place. Contrary to what Migloid implies its all about raw strength and fighting for the highest rating crown hence the ban on these russian programs which are as strong and in some respects stronger than the latest Rybka. They are much quicker in their analysis and stronger in endgames. They are desperate to protect their commercial interests and keep claiming rybka is the strongest. As usual its all about the money.
Please dont be fooled by this new rent it from the cloud idea. This is just a money making scheme of Rajlich - you will no longer be able to buy the "strongest" program only rent server time. What matters is what the chess professionals do - they want access to the best available program for their research and preparation so the idea is they will rent Rybka time as they cannot afford not too. There is thus a very strong incentive to corrupt the "independant" rating process and its already started. After all if the strongest programs were free that's the end of Rajlichs business and puts a big dent in the chessbase business model. They rate free programs so long as they are not a threat but this trio are so ooh they are copies we are not rating them - yeah right :) I strongly encourage everyone to download these programs and see for themselves - anyone who plays serious correspondence will see they are often much better than Rybka.
The visualisation training is a popular myth - there are is scientific foundation behind it whatsoever. The gains will be probably negligible in comparison with the effort invested. Learning about typical positions and typical plans applicable in those positions will bring one much faster on track to a master.
The visualisation training is a popular myth - there are is no scientific foundation behind it whatsoever. The gains will be probably negligible in comparison with the effort invested. Learning about typical positions and typical plans applicable in those positions will bring one much faster on track to a master.
Mig,
Fritz 11 added visualisation training that is not far off what you envisaged. From what I remember, you set up a position then use the mouse to click the moves you intend. The pieces don't actually move and once you are done Fritz rates your continuation. I've been meaning to gather a collection of positions to try this out ever since I bought it ....
http://www.chessbase.com/workshop2.asp?id=4508
Andy, I'm not a 'hacker' but it seems to me that if a program is open source there is no need to reverse engineer it !?
Andy was pretty much wrong in every comment.
"Open source" has nothing to do with it; evidently Andy is ignorant of basic computing and has never heard of a "decompiler".
Also, Cloud computing being the future is a fact; Raj just picked up on a future trend - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing
Lastly, Andy betrays his identity by his last statement encouraging everyone to download pirated programs. Evidently just another pubescent teenager.
Happy Birthday, Garry Kasparov. Hope you will stay involved in chess in someway (and not jump into chess politics following your great immediate predecessor).. How about making a few more FritzTrainer videos for us?
I know Jesper Hall advocates it. His book is "Chess training for budding champions"
I believe the Stockfish team openly acknowledged that they took 'ideas' from the sources of Ippo*, and Robo*. Hence it's at least fair to speculate that it was these ideas that contributed to the recent 100+ ELO jump Stockfish achieved. It doesn't diminish their achievement - or fine character, as evident by them opening Stockfish code to the public to further everyone knowledge in this arcane domain.
Thereby the hooligangs who reversed engineered Rybka 3 and released the source-code (that doesn't look much like code btw) have helped indirectly the chess community closing the 3+ years gap Rybka had.
On the what's next dept: Vas confirmed R4 will be released in early May (after 2+ years in the making). Thus another fair speculation is that Rybka will again lead by 100+ points in the rating lists until it's reverse engineered too.
Who cares about these engines? Likely the Super-GMs do for their opening prep?
sorry for going off topic but where is all the Anand-Topalov news? Just 10 days to go and no interviews, news about seconds, etc? :(
yes you are quite right :)
Well, at least the opening ceremony should be educational :) http://www.chessdom.com/topalov-anand-2010/topalov-anand-world-chass-championship-details
"Some details from the opening ceremony program are also known. In the beginning a 20 minutes movie will be projected. It is about chess history, the beginning of the game in India, and its spreading to the Balkans thanks to the proto-Bulgarians."
proto Bulgarians lmao.
LOL ignore nobhead and Rajlick and do as all the strong GM's do
L’Ami: "One day I entered his hotel room, during the Corus tournament, and I saw all these strange, crazy names I had never heard of. But now I know that currently everybody uses them."
When you download rybka from the net and dont pay its pirating. These other programs are not rybka. You dont pay because they are freeware.
Anyway like L'Ami - see what you think. FICGS (which is also a great cc website) is a good place to get the latest versions of Firebird: http://www.ficgs.com/Download-Firebird-1.2-f7379.html
Ivanhoe seems very strong: http://www.mediafire.com/?jzt0mmz3zmz
or http://www.zshare.net/download/7429917678ad0939/
If you need a playing jnterface download and install Arena 2.0.1 from: http://www.playwitharena.com/
Then go to “Engines” –> “Install new engine”…
Now you have the strongest chess software currently available and its not Rybka.
As for the Rybka cloud lets see if anyone will sign up for it - if its significantly stronger than using available software they might but the market will decide
lol..thanks! maybe we'll hear more when Anand arrives in Bulgaria on Friday..
Cloud computing is just another option. It's not taking over anything. Particularly chess engine analysis. That's ridiculous.
I remember someone 40 or so years ago predicting one computer to run it all. This cloud prediction is very similar.
There is a freeware program
Chess Vision Trainer 3.0
on download.com, which does exactly the visualization thing.
Spot on about cloud computing - just another option
Happy Birthday Garry!
Rybka means 'little fish' not only in Czech and Polish, as Mig claims, but also in Russian.
As mentioned by commenter Vladimir in a recent item on the ChessMind blog (http://www.thechessmind.net/blog/2010/3/30/a-pair-of-smyslov-studies-solution-time.html), StockFish should eventually be able to use the Gaviota tablebases (http://sites.google.com/site/gaviotachessengine/Home/endgame-tablebases-1), which provide distance-to-mate info as well as the W/L/D verdicts of bitbases. The Stockfish website has no such speculation, however---it just says StockFish does not currently support tablebases.
Etymology note: besides "Stockfish" being one of Norway's (other) prime exports, it has the same relation to Rybka as a "stock car" has to a "Formula-1" or "Indy" car in racing. Hence it's a very clever name.
The one logistical feature of Rybka 3 that is vital for my current work is the "cap" feature in Multi-PV mode, which cuts off analyses of moves that are worse than the best move by the configurable "multipv_cp" figure, which I set to 400 centipawns. I wonder how difficult it would be to program into Stockfish...
I do wish that the Fritz GUI were able to log game analyses to a file, as Arena (2.0.1) can do for any UCI or WB engine. Is that possible in Fritz 12?
Thank God for the proto-Bulgarians. If it wasn't for them, Vishy would be sitting across from an empty chair next week.
To me, a chess program who can realistically play like a 1400, and then, continue playing like a true 1600, 1800, 1900, 2000, etc will earn big bucks (or big download numbers, if that's what their interest is). Right now Chessmaster is awful in that sense, and none of the programs I have seen can do that.
Yes, that would be ideal for the amateur player: a chess playing program which can be set at numerous ratings and perform realistically and consistently at the rating level at which it is set.
I proposed the idea of a Reference Fallible Endgame Player (RFEP) in 2003 at an ICGA 'Computer Games' conference in Maastricht, and later that year in the ICGA Journal.
The main concept is that an agent, in this case a chess-engine made infallible by the use of EGTs, can be dumbed down by choosing from the available moves using a 'Roulette Wheel' tuned to the competence you want - anywhere between 'infallible' and 'totally random'.
The idea was extended in 2007 to the whole of chess, q.v. my paper 'Gentlemen, Stop Your Engines!', now available via http://centaur.reading.ac.uk/view/creators/90000763.html.
As seen from the URL, further work has been done with Ken Regan and my UoR colleague Giuseppe di Fatta. Engine-settings can be determined to enable an engine to play approximately at ELO 'E', and can be adjusted dynamically in the game if the engine is overly winning or losing.
Afaik, no actual engine has built this mechanism into is functionality yet.
There's also a paper relevant to this 'adjust to the opponent' theme - in another game-domain. See 'Incongruity-based Adaptive Game-Balancing' by van Lankveld, Spronck and Rauterberg from the ICGA Pamplona Conference last year (Springer LNCS 6048): the preprint is at http://tinyurl.com/y5xw97p. Enjoy!
Guy
Oops, the trailing period got highlighted into Guy Haworth's links---can delete it manually or click:
http://centaur.reading.ac.uk/view/creators/90000763.html
http://tinyurl.com/y5xw97p
Both our papers from last year are at the former; currently we are working on more-extensive versions, using Rybka 3 rather than Toga II as mentioned in my comment above.
ciaj wrote:
{
... ideal for the amateur player: a chess playing program which can be set at numerous ratings and perform realistically and consistently at the rating level at which it is set.
}
Fritz can be told a "Fixed Depth" that it should calculate to as your opponent.
If you can defeat Fritz at FD=5, increase it to =6 for your next game.
Find your personal FD number.
Fixed depth is at least an approximation of "numerous ratings".
Hello Mig,
Thanks for writing about our program! I agree with you that interface and features are more important than raw strength these days (except on the iPhone, where Stockfish is still very beatable), but we are only hobbyists with limited time on our hands, and have little skill and experience with GUI programming.
This being said, Stockfish does ship with a simple GUI on Mac OS X, and I hope to improve this GUI in the future. Right now, however, the iPhone version has the highest priority.
I am a mac user , thx for existing.
Actually, Chessmaster can be set up using different 'personalities' such as Alekhine, Tal, etc. down to amateur level. And it really plays clumsy at the amateur levels.
Is it just me, or the whole discussion of this controversy is incredibly hypocritical and biased. So let's recap.
1) There is a longstanding suspicion that Rybka is based on open source Fruit. If it is so, Rajlich has violated the terms of the Fruits license (GPL) and is a criminal.
2) The only reason why these accusations were not taken seriously is that Rybka were quite a bit stronger than the Fruit it was allegedly based on. Fair enough.
3) Now a program comes alone that is a bit stronger than Rybka and, perhaps more importantly, has a more human style.
4) Rajlich puts forward an accusation that this is Rybka's clone without any evidence to it except his word.
5) The strength of this claim is exactly the same as the claim that Rybka is Fruit's clone. However, the reaction is remarkably different: Firebird's are banned from Playchess, supposedly independent rating lists, discussions about it are censored on message boards.
6) As a minor point accusations against Rajlich are more serious. He is accused of doing something criminal (violating license), while Firebird's authors only of doing something unethical.
This is how it looks like to me, an observer who doesn't have a dog in this fight. Now chessvibes also seems skeptical about Vasik's claims, but comes up only with weak
"We’d really like to give Rybka the benefit of the doubt, but at the same time we think that as long as Rybka’s accusations are not based on concrete evidence, using Firebird as an interesting alternative isn’t morally wrong necessarily."
In free society the emphasis should be put differently. Unless Rajlich can prove that Firebird is Rybka's clone he should keep quiet. And of course, until that point, those that try to censor Firebird discussions on forums and it's appearance in rating lists should be ostracized.
Does any of these programs provide a "true blindfold" mode to practice visualization, with move input and output through the command line, or onscreen buttons, and not displaying an Amber-style blank chessboard?
"those that try to censor Firebird discussions on forums and it's appearance in rating lists should be ostracized"
Ah the fresh breeze of sensible comment quite refreshing. However almost all of the comments have been off topic - a sort of self censorship dont mention Firebird or god forbid download it. I dont expect any of your points will be addressed :)as they are all spot on
I don't think there is a need to address any of my points, honestly. The censorship is annoying and wrong, but the situation will sort itself out. GM's and correspondence players are switching to Firebirds in droves, at least that's what I see from reading Russian forums.
In this day and age you can slow down the spread of information, but you can not stop it completely.
No matter how many times Vasik says "clone", only zealots will notice. Most rational people will eventually switch to a better product. At this moment this is Firebird. So either Vasik improves Rybka so that it's a top dog again, or his business will go down the drain.
I agree however the exclusion of Firebird from the rating lists is sinister although as you say the market will out - cc and professional players want the best product
"Tarrasch has full or partial blindfold modes, and a 'play N half moves behind' mode. These innovative training features designed to help you improve your ability to see ahead." from http://www.triplehappy.com/ is a free program that seems to have the feature you're looking for.
There are many other free programs here: http://freechess.50webs.com
Best regards
obsender: the evidence against Ippo/Robbo/Firebird etc. is not direct. Ippo was based on reverse engineered code, by consensus of all experts from talkchess.com who looked at it.
The authors claimed it is based on some special language which they made, wrote the code, compiled, then decompiled it to C++, thus the mess. So
They said they wrote the original program using MS Word as an editor and provided a snippet. Original code or the compiler were not provided.
It was also very unclear how did they come to such highly-optimized code, because Ippo was indeed highly optimized. When some dudes write a compiler it usually does not produce good code. Mind you, chess engines which are around are very, very fast, sometimes ones head spins looking at the tricks they do in the code for speedup. So this reverse engineered thing was as fast as those highly optimized engines, which means this story about their own language+compiler is very unlikely to be true. It looks very much like as if a reverse engineered C++ based engine, and a highly optimized one at that. Given strength, there was one engine which "matched".
As I said, this is not a proof but many considered this + Vasik's word enough to ban this family of engines.
"As a minor point accusations against Rajlich are more serious. He is accused of doing something criminal (violating license),"
Violating a commercial license is not 'criminal', don't get too hysterical about it. There could be a civil claim for damages, which would have to be judged on the specific facts, and on the law of the country in question.
The names "Fischer" and "Karpov" are also related to fish. At least, according to an old PCN interview with Karpov.
A facebook chess application. Good one. http://www.facebook.com/ChessPuzzle
"the evidence against Ippo/Robbo/Firebird etc. is not direct. Ippo was based on reverse engineered code, by consensus of all experts from talkchess.com who looked at it."
1) I don't follow talkchess regularly, but I highly doubt that this was a conclusion of "all" experts. For example, was that conclusion of Hyatt as well?
2) I have no doubt though that the vocal majority of "experts" on talkchess were indeed against Firebirds and Robbos. The problem is though that this majority is comprised of jealous and opinionated bunch of authors of mediocre chess engines, for whom a new superior engine is a thorn in their inflated ego.
3) I'm not going to debate whether Robbo was indeed reverse engineered or not. However, the weirdness of the explanation it's authors provided IMO makes their story more credible. If they wanted to cover up the fact that they reverse engineered Rybka, the easiest way would be to provide no code at all. In fact that what Vasik did when confronted with accusations of using Fruit's source code.
4) The problem I'm having is the general logic of these talkchess "experts". They claim that Robbo/Firebird, whose source code is available for analysis is a clone of Rybka, whose code they've never seen. Strikes me as a pinnacle of absurd.
5) It's an undeniable fact that Firebirds play markedly differently to Rybkas. So even if we take the (questionable) hypothesis that Firebird started as a disassembled Rybka for granted, now it's an independent entity. Surely, all other chess programs, including Rybka, were built on the ideas of those who came before.
In conclusion, I can not see how a rational person can advocate exclusion of Firebird from rating lists etc.
Note that I don't care about this, just want to let you know what I know :)
1) yes, everyone, including Hyatt and all others, including the ones who advocated that Ippo (and derived) should NOT be banned, everyone says the first version of Ippo was reverse engineered. Later they cleaned up the code quite well.
2) Some testers have such sentiments, to them Rajlich is like a god, only somewhat better. Among the authors my impression is that he is not that popular. Maybe - not at all popular.
3) I personally, as a computer scientist, believe that what they say is very, very, very unlikely to be true.
4) Strelka, when came out, was claimed and proven to be a Rybka clone without Rybka's source being available. There are methods, like comparing binaries, comparing engine output, comparing bugs, running matches and looking at ponder hit stats etc. In case of Strelka this had been done thoroughly. In case of Ippo and derived-not really, there have been some comparison but IMHO that would be very little for a court. But comparing engines without source is possible.
5) I agree that the new engines are quite different from Rybka, which, by itself, is an argument that it is not cloned. But if it is, then it's illegal, even if they modified it.
I don't get one aspect of the discussion: Reverse engineering itself is not illegal. Where do the claims about illegality come from? Does Rajlich suspect they obtained his source code by more direct means?
Reverse engineering can breach the contract (i.e., the software license agreement), but other than that, I don't think it violates any law (e.g., I don't think reverse engineering runs afoul of trade secret laws).
Here's the other problem with this whole "you reverse engineered my code" accusation. Reverse engineering is the easy part - you simply run it through a decompiler. However, improving the decompiled code is very difficult because you have to make sense of the decompiled code. So, even if we assume, arguendo, that the code was reverse engineered, I think these people should be commended for figuring out how to improve it.
I was not entirely correct about the legality of reverse engineering. Decompilation can violate copyright laws. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decompiler.
However, it would be next to impossible to prove copyright violation if you transform the decompiled code before publishing it.
OK, I don't know whether just reverse engineering is illegal or not, but I am sure that you cannot reverse engineer a commercial product and publish its sources under an open license, claiming it is original work. Something in that sequence is illegal for sure.
By reverse engineering you don't get the original source code. If you use the reverse engineering result as a technical specifcation, and write new source code that meets this specification, you may be entirely free to publish your source code. But it's a tricky business, because besides the source code there may be other legal issues, copyright or patents, involved. Reverse engineering is also often used as a legal smokescreen, when in fact the original source code has been obtained somehow and copied.
That's why I would like to know more about it. Does Rajlich just claim they reverse engineered Rybka, or that they did something really illegal?
I'm guessing that Rajlich believes that they misappropriated the source code. And now I'm starting to think so too. Especially because at least part of the story seems too fantastic to be true.
Here's the really fantastic part: "The authors claimed it is based on some special language which they made, wrote the code, compiled, then decompiled it to C++, thus the mess." (I'm assuming the authors actually said this as claimed by one of the poster on this message board).
Nobody in their right minds would do something like that.
It is almost enormously difficult to reverse engineer an engine, understand it, and change it in such a way that it becomes stronger. It is even more difficult to do it in such a way that the two engines do not play very similar moves, i.e. obtain a new "personality". The stronger the original engine, the harder the whole thing is. If the original engine is Rybka, I believe the whole thing is almost impossible.
So basically there are these two versions, both are so improbably that one has really hard time understanding what has really happened there.
* First sentence should read:
"It is ALSO enormously difficult..."
To summarize, there is something weird about firebirds, so why not just ban and censor them. This seems to be the logic of these talkchess "experts".
Coming back to your earlier points:
"Among the authors my impression is that he (Rajlich) is not that popular. Maybe - not at all popular."
I'm sure they hate him. But now it's pointless for them to attack him, since everybody knows Rybka and only a handful of people heard about talkchess. On the other hand, they have some influence over the fate of a new program by blocking it's appearance in rating lists.
"There are methods, like comparing binaries, comparing engine output, comparing bugs, running matches and looking at ponder hit stats etc. In case of Strelka this had been done thoroughly. In case of Ippo and derived-not really, there have been some comparison but IMHO that would be very little for a court. But comparing engines without source is possible."
So let me get this straight (for the benefit of general public). There are methods to check whether one engine is a clone of the other. However, in the particular instance of Ippo/Firebird/Rybka none of these methods was used, nevertheless the claim was made. Doesn't it strike you that "experts" that dish out such claims lose all the credibility and should be publicly caned?
Mind you, we are not talking about some minor engine that nobody cares about. We are talking about an engine that has a legitimate claim to be the strongest engine at the time.
A program to do what you ask -- lag the board display -- is available at http://chesstraining.sourceforge.net/wordpress/2010/01/22/chess-trainer-151-released/
It also has quite a number of other blindfold and visualization training features. And it's open source.
And I admit that even I haven't bothered to upgrade my own software in quite a while because I stopped getting free stuff and I didn't see any must-have features that would make my work any easier.
http://www.amerisleep.com/
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I have all the enhusiasm and interest for chess. But never been any more than a fish as you descibed.
it is almost enormously difficult to reverse engineer an engine, understand it, and change it in such a way that it becomes stronger.
what fish they talk about? is this can affect us?Second Hand Clubs
I never really know that "fish" is now used to refer to chess programs. But at least I knew that it is used to refer to weak players. This is one ncie blog, congrats!
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chess has been a fad this days. it is even included in official world games. its funny that you will be called a fish when you're not that good at it. i happen to play this game but not really into it. anyhow, glad to know about the fish!
Fish in town is a good new, keep up the good work.
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I think a good visualization training tool would be very helpful for us visual learners visiting this site. There must be someone out there by now who has advanced that sort of technology or program.
There are purely few people who are able to play chess neatly. Reason why chess need a lot of practice. Then, the participant must believe quickly after they playing.
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Wow it,s great to know that in American English the meaning of fish is a weak chess player.
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Well truly speaking I play a lot of chess, but the post was a little confusing to me as I didn't get what actually you meant to say.
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Any one of those stages is a different kind of visualisation handicap to the one you suggested.
This is really nice piece of work indeed.New fish in town is really a great news.Thanks for the work.
I love playing chess all the time.
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Interesting, I wonder what the statistics are on your first point there.
Believing chess develops a person's intellect is akin to ersan.